Another new Brexit thread

[inbetween]

This is a hot take. The people to blame are leavers 100%. There are degrees to which people support brexit but ultimately all blame resides with those that did. Remainers are not to blame in any way.

Do you not think that people like Jeremy Corbyn should take some blame for Brexit because did he even participate in the referendum?

We might of been able to stop Brexit had the alternative on the ballot box not been an unelectable Marxist Labour party.

 

[Vic]

What have remainers been right about Vic?

I've yet to see any of the project fear predictions come true?

I really can't be arsed.

But try this. Cameron slammed for saying holidays would be dearer because the pound would slump 12%. You actually have to pay 20% more for a euro than before the referendum. (Plus extra insurance costs especially if you're older or have pre-existing conditions.)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3605784/Family-holidays-Europe-cost-230-Brexit-PM-says.html

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

On the SNP side, that's exactly my point and the indicative votes showed that Parliament was completely unwilling and also unable to accept any form of Brexit. The indicative votes should of been used to eliminate options until an option was found and not to eliminate Brexit.

Again, that indecision and obstruction is what gave us an election that resulted in the largest Tory majority in decades.

If everyone decided right from day one to work together towards a Brexit (AND vote for it) then the fringe mobs like the ERG would be powerless.

I mean christ, the Tories didn't even have a majority until last year?!? Where was Parliament between 2016 and December 2020??

The tories are split by brexit more than most. The ERG head bangers are determined to not just leave the EU but burn the bridges and go down fighting. To what extent these psychopaths still have influence and control is to be determined. Most of the government are soft brexiteers (or remainers turned brexiteers that most likely think it bad for the country but good for their careers) suggesting that a soft brexit will be done but the ERG could still scupper that or force Johnson to seek Labour support. The fight is not yet over in the tory party and its a fight between two alternative shit outcomes.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I love how the leavers are to blame narrative has started

to blame for what ?

what exactly, what has happened that is so bad?

Covid, Liverpool winning the league? What?

 

[Vic]

I love how the leavers are to blame for leaving.

Fixed.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

I love how the leavers are to blame narrative has started

to blame for what ?

what exactly, what has happened that is so bad?

Covid, Liverpool winning the league? What?

pigeons.

 

[Vic]

Do you not think that people like Jeremy Corbyn should take some blame for Brexit because did he even participate in the referendum?

We might of been able to stop Brexit had the alternative on the ballot box not been an unelectable Marxist Labour party.

We might have. "Remainers" didn't choose the Labour leader.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Fixed.

yeah we are leaving it is fixed.

those who wanted to leave are to blame for leaving you have changed it to.

what the fuck are you on about that’s what we voted for you numpty.

 

[blueinsa]

I asked last week.

What form is your blame going to take? Its an empty threat falling on deaf ears. The electorate has spoken several times the last 5 years and frankly doesn't give a fuck what most of you say and think and certainly wont bow down to your threats of blame.

Arf.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Do you not think that people like Jeremy Corbyn should take some blame for Brexit because did he even participate in the referendum?

We might of been able to stop Brexit had the alternative on the ballot box not been an unelectable Marxist Labour party.

Corbyn was useless but he wasn't the one out there lying about brexit day in day out. Brexit was (is) a massive con, the two leave campaigns and all the other nefarious shits that pushed it are to blame.

The tories are in bed with the same rogues that helped Trump win the US election with Russian backing. We can all see what Trump has done to America yet people refuse to see what Brexit is doing to the UK and they refuse to make the link. We are fucked until these malign characters are extracted from our political system. Corbyn would have been an incompetent and expensive PM but I genuinely think the Johnson Government will leave our finances in a worse state (at least with Corbyn we would have something to show for the £bn's spent). The cost of Brexit on top of the disastrous economic impact will leave us economically and fiscally fucked and we will be looking at ways out. We will be back in the EU within 5 years and we will have nothing to show for the £bn's wasted. Zero.

 

[inbetween]

The tories are split by brexit more than most. The ERG head bangers are determined to not just leave the EU but burn the bridges and go down fighting. To what extent these psychopaths still have influence and control is to be determined. Most of the government are soft brexiteers (or remainers turned brexiteers that most likely think it bad for the country but good for their careers) suggesting that a soft brexit will be done but the ERG could still scupper that or force Johnson to seek Labour support. The fight is not yet over in the tory party and its a fight between two alternative shit outcomes.

The ERG is a group of perhaps 50 people within a party with 360+ seats, they are even more irrelevant today than they were prior to the election.

There are factions in the Tory party but the difference Cummings has made is they now have to express their differences very quietly indeed.

If there was some form of Brexit vote tomorrow, I can absolutely guarantee that no matter the content it would attract a 100% vote from Tory MP's.

 

[west didsblue]

Do you not think that people like Jeremy Corbyn should take some blame for Brexit because did he even participate in the referendum?

We might of been able to stop Brexit had the alternative on the ballot box not been an unelectable Marxist Labour party.

I’d say he is partly to blame. He went missing during the referendum campaign. Probably because he supports leaving but didn’t want to say it outright.
That sort of reinforces the original point that leavers are 100% to blame for any negative consequences.

 

[inbetween]

Corbyn was useless but he wasn't the one out there lying about brexit day in day out. Brexit was (is) a massive con, the two leave campaigns and all the other nefarious shits that pushed it are to blame.

The tories are in bed with the same rogues that helped Trump win the US election with Russian backing. We can all see what Trump has done to America yet people refuse to see what Brexit is doing to the UK and they refuse to make the link. We are fucked until these malign characters are extracted from our political system. Corbyn would have been an incompetent and expensive PM but I genuinely think the Johnson Government will leave our finances in a worse state (at least with Corbyn we would have something to show for the £bn's spent). The cost of Brexit on top of the disastrous economic impact will leave us economically and fiscally fucked and we will be looking at ways out. We will be back in the EU within 5 years and we will have nothing to show for the £bn's wasted. Zero.

All of this is a pre-referendum argument, you are arguing why Brexit shouldn't happen but the only fact on the table is it's happening.

The electorate has consistently voted for it in every question asked since 2016 so you're argument here is pointless and too late.

From 2016 to 2019, Brexit from a remain point of view should of been about mitigation but that argument was lost too.

So now in 2020 we are at implementation and that's the reality in front of us. Anything else is delusional, sorry.

 

[Metal Biker]

You've had four years .... please enlighten us as to what 'progress' the Tories have made?


(See what I did there .... managed to get 'progress' and 'Tories' in the same sentence..... grammatical wizardry.)

I've had four years?

WE have had to endure four years of remainer MP's trying their damndest to halt, delay, overturn and reject every notion of brexit.

For you brexit isn't about what's best for the country (because you couldn't actually give two shits about it), it's a stick to beat your obsession over hating the Tories with. Get a better hobby.

 

[Metal Biker]

This is a hot take. The people to blame are leavers 100%. There are degrees to which people support brexit but ultimately all blame resides with those that did. Remainers are not to blame in any way.

They aren't to blame for failing to address and satisfy the fears about federalism?
They aren't to blame for failing to promote the EU in a positive light besides "but...muh moneh"?
They aren't to blame for insulting the intelligence of the British Public at every turn?
They aren't to blame for insulting the integrity of the British Public by claiming a vote to leave was based on racism?
They aren't to blame for trying to frustrate the process of leaving in Parliament?
They aren't to blame for trying to delay the process of leaving in Parliament?
They aren't to blame for refusing to co-operate with the process of leaving in Parliament?
They aren't to blame for failing to put forward a convincing argument that leavers could appreciate about remaining?
They aren't to blame for failing to placate or even acknowledge leave voters concerns about the EU?
They aren't to blame for socially distancing themselves from the majority of the British Public by consistantly insulting leave voters, therefore giving the Conservatives a huge majority and being responsible for the direct divide we now have in British politics?

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

The ERG is a group of perhaps 50 people within a party with 360+ seats, they are even more irrelevant today than they were prior to the election.

There are factions in the Tory party but the difference Cummings has made is they now have to express their differences very quietly indeed.

If there was some form of Brexit vote tomorrow, I can absolutely guarantee that no matter the content it would attract a 100% vote from Tory MP's.

That is not accurate. There were 80ish Tories who voted with the ERG last time, we have no idea how many new tories share the fundamentalist view. It only takes ~50 to threaten the majority and you don't know until the vote. Johnson has already lost votes and been forced into U Turns on various issues so the backbenches have already exerted some power - it remains to be seen what will happen on any brexit vote.

Cummings, Gove and Johnson are not a supporters of soft brexit - they are when they need to promote it to get elected but they are of the delusional cake and eat it types who thinks we will get what we want so we don't know where they will fall when it comes to a crunch. Any ability to unite the party may be used to get behind no deal if that is where they end up.

 

[inbetween]

I’d say he is partly to blame. He went missing during the referendum campaign. Probably because he supports leaving but didn’t want to say it outright.
That sort of reinforces the original point that leavers are 100% to blame for any negative consequences.

My point in all of this is falling back on blame doesn't really solve much does it?

Corbyn must hold blame because he was the most prominent remain supporter and was the leader of the opposition for the entirety of the referendum and negotiation.

Did he oppose Brexit, did he challenge Brexit? Jesus he only bothered to come up with an alternative Brexit to stop his party from collapsing in the 2019 election (which it did anyway).

May's deal or any number of other options could of been our Brexit had remainers voted for it but now we have a majority party that can turn to no deal whenever it wants. I don't see how that is leavers fault?

Again I put the blame on everyone for this mess, it's a mess because no-one could ever agree and no-one ever accepted anything other than what they wanted. The stalemate vacuum resulted in the electorate having it's say and forcing the issue which is where we are now.

 

[west didsblue]

My point in all of this is falling back on blame doesn't really solve much does it?

Corbyn must hold blame because he was the most prominent remain supporter and was the leader of the opposition for the entirety of the referendum and negotiation.

Did he oppose Brexit, did he challenge Brexit? Jesus he only bothered to come up with an alternative Brexit to stop his party from collapsing in the 2019 election (which it did anyway).

May's deal or any number of other options could of been our Brexit had remainers voted for it but now we have a majority party that can turn to no deal whenever it wants. I don't see how that is leavers fault?

Again I put the blame on everyone for this mess, it's a mess because no-one could ever agree and no-one ever accepted anything other than what they wanted. The stalemate vacuum resulted in the electorate having it's say and forcing the issue which is where we are now.

Yes you can legitimately blame the Remain campaign for being poor and not convincing enough people of the merits of remaining.

The people that are in no way to blame for any negative consequences are the members of the general public who voted remain.

 

[joe123]

Corbyn was the most prominent remain supporter?!

I fail to see how remainers can take blame for something they didn't vote for. As far as I can see, any blame for this is at the feet of Leavers who have consistently failed to have a coherent leave position across the board, let alone one that could get the support of people who voted remain.

 

[Metal Biker]

My point in all of this is falling back on blame doesn't really solve much does it?

Corbyn must hold blame because he was the most prominent remain supporter and was the leader of the opposition for the entirety of the referendum and negotiation.

Did he oppose Brexit, did he challenge Brexit? Jesus he only bothered to come up with an alternative Brexit to stop his party from collapsing in the 2019 election (which it did anyway).

May's deal or any number of other options could of been our Brexit had remainers voted for it but now we have a majority party that can turn to no deal whenever it wants. I don't see how that is leavers fault?

Again I put the blame on everyone for this mess, it's a mess because no-one could ever agree and no-one ever accepted anything other than what they wanted. The stalemate vacuum resulted in the electorate having it's say and forcing the issue which is where we are now.

These people need a scapegoat so that they can have someone to place under their pariah guillotine.

I still find it amusing all this talk of trying to find "blame for brexit". It's not even as if they're going to do anything.

"Brexiteers must take the blame for brexit!"

Yeah? What are you going to do about it? Not associate with me anymore?

I mean let's be honest here; had Corbyn won the election way back in 2017, and continued to press on with a brexit deal that Labour had agreed, nobody of the remain persuasion would be anywhere near as vitriolic about brexit as they are today. It's because it's a "Tory Brexit" is what's pissing them off and throwing around the "blame" insinuation.