Another new Brexit thread

[Saddleworth2]

I was hopeful of some objectivity, that’s all, I was let down.

No I haven’t, what did it say, Trump colluding with Putin to force Brexit?

from the Guardian

‘ Scott Horton, a lecturer at Columbia law school, said on Tuesday the Senate committee’s report “confirms nearly everything” about Trump’s ties to Moscow. He said it vindicated claims by the Democrats and others that the campaign had indeed colluded with the Russians – something Trump has vehemently denied.‘

“The committee offers a much deeper view into the intelligence collected by US authorities than does the much sketchier Mueller report. It will support the view that Mueller, far from exonerating Trump, simply expected to pass the baton to Congress to conduct deeper inquiries.”

from the New York Times

‘It provided a bipartisan Senate imprimatur for an extraordinary set of facts: The Russian government disrupted an American election to help Mr. Trump become president, Russian intelligence services viewed members of the Trump campaign as easily manipulated, and some of Mr. Trump’s advisers were eager for the help from an American adversary.‘

From the Washington Post

On Tuesday, the Republican-chaired Senate Intelligence Committee released a report with damning details of the extent of cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence operatives.
The Post reports: “The long-awaited report from the Senate Intelligence Committee contains dozens of new findings that appear to show more direct links between Trump associates and Russian intelligence, and pierces the president’s long-standing attempts to dismiss the Kremlin’s intervention on his behalf as a hoax.” These include a determination “that a longtime partner of Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort was, in fact, a Russian intelligence officer.”

all more Machiavellian nonsense of course @Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese That’s after an unprecedented investigation. Who knows what the U.K. would find f it even bothered to look.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Russia trying to influence Western elections isn’t what I’m arguing about.

What I am arguing about is that it’s David Icke stuff to conclude Putin, Farage and Trump cooperated and schemed together behind the scenes to force Brexit, wouldn’t you agree?

Christ. You really are obtuse. Russian interference. Has Putin been involved Yes. Has Trump been involved yes. Has Farrage been involved unproven.

 

[Ban-jani]

Christ. You really are obtuse. Russian interference. Has Putin been involved Yes. Has Trump been involved yes. Has Farrage been involved unproven.

Im losing patience repeating myself...

All three parties trying to have an influence on Brexit, Farage’s totally legitimate by the way unless you’re anti democratic, is one thing, the level of influence each individual party had is another (Trump and Putin likely very very little) and the three of them working together on it is an entirely different ball game and will count as a global conspiracy and maybe the severest interference in a domestic vote by other states in the history of the West, certainly in the last century.

I’m not being obtuse, you’re just not getting the level of the claim, either on purpose or not.

 

[Ric]

Russia trying to influence Western elections isn’t what I’m arguing about.

What I am arguing about is that it’s David Icke stuff to conclude Putin, Farage and Trump cooperated and schemed together behind the scenes to force Brexit, wouldn’t you agree?

To save me going back a few pages, who’s actually said that?

 

[Ban-jani]

To save me going back a few pages, who’s actually said that?

Carole Cadwalladr.

To be honest I merely wanted to make a single point of her doing our argument no good (the argument to remain) because of her lies in the past and wild imagination, Saddleworth must be married to her as he’ll defend her until the grave by the looks of things.

She’s pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Ric]

Carole Cadwalladr.

To be honest I merely wanted to make a single point of her doing our argument no good (the argument to remain) because of her lies in the past and wild imagination, Saddleworth must be married to her as he’ll defend her until the grave by the looks of things.

She’s pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

Thanks mate. Do you have a link to the article where she explicitly said that?

 

[Ban-jani]

Thanks mate. Do you have a link to the article where she explicitly said that?

Redirect Notice

Her Tweets at the time (now deleted for backlash) pretty much summarised the above article as something a long the lines of “Trump, Farage and Putin conspire to push Brexit.”

I don’t think the Guardian allowed the article above to be removed.

I had Twitter at the time and asked if she knew what damage she was doing to the 2nd referendum campaign, got obviously blocked.

 

[Ric]

Redirect Notice

Her Tweets at the time (now deleted for backlash) pretty much summarised the above article as something a long the lines of “Trump, Farage and Putin conspire to push Brexit.”

I don’t think the Guardian allowed the article above to be removed.

I had Twitter at the time and asked if she knew what damage she was doing to the 2nd referendum campaign, got obviously blocked.

Haven’t seen her tweets, but that article itself is only alleging links between various parties as far as I can tell, rather than saying that Trump, Putin and Farage actually sat down and orchestrated the whole thing. Presumably if anything said in that article was wholly untrue she would’ve been sued for libel?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

No, but it certainly suggested that there was indeed Russian interference in the 2016 US election. Not a huge leap of faith to imagine that they may have sought to influence the Brexit vote too. That may not have happened, of course, but not sure dismissing that notion as “David Icke stuff” is particularly objective either.

It's the attempt to connect Farage, Trump, Putin and brexit as if it's all some grand alliance worthy of a marvel comic book tale that is 'David Icke stuff'. It's just a very childish and binary view of the world to lump everyone you don't particularly like into one little box - this is what Bush did with his axis of evil.

 

[Ric]

It's the attempt to connect Farage, Trump, Putin and brexit as if it's all some grand alliance worthy of a marvel comic book tale that is 'David Icke stuff'. It's just a very childish and binary view of the world to lump everyone you don't particularly like into one little box - this is what Bush did with his axis of evil.

The Bush “axis of evil” quote is a bit odd and not really relevant, but hey ho. There is literally a Senate report from two days ago regarding Trump and Putin, so don’t think it’s a particularly childish and binary view to link them. Maybe, just maybe, it’s a step too far to imagine that might have extended into British politics though. We’re obviously above all that.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

The Bush “axis of evil” quote is a bit odd and not really relevant, but hey ho. There is literally a Senate report from two days ago regarding Trump and Putin, so don’t think it’s a particularly childish and binary view to link them. Maybe, just maybe, it’s a step too far to imagine that might have extended into British politics though. We’re obviously above all that.

I think Trump, Putin, Farage, BJ all have 'something of the night' about them and certainly share some thing in common with regard to the way they interact with democracy/their electorates, the media, and the way in which they generally play the game. I personally think this has a lot to do with the social media / web based era we are in. So essentially I agree with you and @Saddleworth2 about the above as individuals, just not that it is a concerted plot among them. Putin/Trump like Trump/Farage and even I suppose BJ/Farage just leech of each other when their interests temporarily coincide.

 

[Saddleworth2]

They have a 'laser beam' pointed at @Ban-jani and @Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese at this very moment.

 

[Ban-jani]

Haven’t seen her tweets, but that article itself is only alleging links between various parties as far as I can tell, rather than saying that Trump, Putin and Farage actually sat down and orchestrated the whole thing. Presumably if anything said in that article was wholly untrue she would’ve been sued for libel?

Yeah the Tweets were far more direct but there’s zero evidence for what she’s alleging and that’s why she’s a fabricator.

She waffles on as if she’s uncovered some great plot but she never does.

 

[Ban-jani]

View attachment 544View attachment 545View attachment 546

They have a 'laser beam' pointed at @Ban-jani and @Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese at this very moment.

I hear it’s pointed at Scotland next!

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yeah the Tweets were far more direct but there’s zero evidence for what she’s alleging and that’s why she’s a fabricator.

She waffles on as if she’s uncovered some great plot but she never does.

This is what she said and has continued to say:
'This is a power network that involves WikiLeaks and Farage, and Cambridge Analytica and Farage, and Robert Mercer and Farage. Steve Bannon, former vice president of Cambridge Analytica, and Farage. It’s Nigel Farage and Brexit and Trump and Cambridge Analytica and WikiLeaks… and, if the Senate intelligence committee and the House intelligence committee and the FBI are on to anything at all, somewhere in the middle of all that, Russia.

Try to follow this on a daily basis and it’s one long headspin: a spider’s web of relationships and networks of power and patronage and alliances that spans the Atlantic and embraces data firms, thinktanks and media outlets. It is about complicated corporate structures in obscure jurisdictions, involving offshore funds funnelled through the black-box algorithms of the platform tech monopolists. That it’s eye-wateringly complicated and geographically diffuse is not a coincidence. Confusion is the charlatan’s friend, noise its accessory. The babble on Twitter is a convenient cloak of darkness.'

Which bit of that do you say she is lying?

 

[blueinsa]

No, but it certainly suggested that there was indeed Russian interference in the 2016 US election. Not a huge leap of faith to imagine that they may have sought to influence the Brexit vote too. That may not have happened, of course, but not sure dismissing that notion as “David Icke stuff” is particularly objective either.

For someone who regularly still does not see the orchestrated media campaign against our club i have to say you seem much more at ease jumping on this, even if there is no evidence, well according to the electoral commision and the Met police that is ;-)

Imagine Carole and Frank in the same room together.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yeah the Tweets were far more direct but there’s zero evidence for what she’s alleging and that’s why she’s a fabricator.

She waffles on as if she’s uncovered some great plot but she never does.

'zero evidence for what she’s alleging'

Thats not what the US senate found.

 

[Ban-jani]

Thats not what the US senate found.

Yes it is, now stop wumming, you know full well Putin and Trump working with Farage to push Brexit wasn’t found by the Senate.

You’re doing yourself a disservice by continuing to push this, there’s plenty about Brexit to highlight as a negative rather than peddling conspiracy theories.

 

[Ban-jani]

This is what she said and has continued to say:
'This is a power network that involves WikiLeaks and Farage, and Cambridge Analytica and Farage, and Robert Mercer and Farage. Steve Bannon, former vice president of Cambridge Analytica, and Farage. It’s Nigel Farage and Brexit and Trump and Cambridge Analytica and WikiLeaks… and, if the Senate intelligence committee and the House intelligence committee and the FBI are on to anything at all, somewhere in the middle of all that, Russia.

Try to follow this on a daily basis and it’s one long headspin: a spider’s web of relationships and networks of power and patronage and alliances that spans the Atlantic and embraces data firms, thinktanks and media outlets. It is about complicated corporate structures in obscure jurisdictions, involving offshore funds funnelled through the black-box algorithms of the platform tech monopolists. That it’s eye-wateringly complicated and geographically diffuse is not a coincidence. Confusion is the charlatan’s friend, noise its accessory. The babble on Twitter is a convenient cloak of darkness.'

Which bit of that do you say she is lying?

It’s a total fabrication, using the impeachment case to make claims about Brexit and she’s pushing a false narrative. As I’ve said her Tweets were far more direct and actually accused them of doing so.

I really don’t know why you wish to die on this hill but I’m happy to pull the trigger.

 

[blueinsa]

Thats not what the US senate found.

Brexit thread.

What did the US senate find about brexit?