Another new Brexit thread

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bluethrunthru said:
You call it enslavement. How come if the wage you can earn in Romania is say £4 per hour but you can come and pick fruit here at £10 per hour thats enslavement but if a doctor can get say £45k pa here or go to say the states and get $150k pa thats bettering themselves - a very selective view put on earnings through the Brexit prism
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Not sure £10 an hour is the going rate anyhow it was you who mentioned enslaving people on atrocious wages. Bit rich to then say I call it enslavement.
 
hilts said:
Not sure £10 an hour is the going rate anyhow it was you who mentioned enslaving people on atrocious wages. Bit rich to then say I call it enslavement.
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enslavement was the word used by the Alpine cheese merchant.

you are right about the going rate - the minimum wage is £8.72 per hr - back in August 2018 the Big Issue reported that they earn on average £400-£450 per week as its piece work - a fruit famer in April of this year said he paid between £11- £15 per hr depending on productivity - laughably the Scum in desperation back in 2018 was saying BRITS could earn £700 pw picking fruit
 
bluethrunthru said:
enslavement was the word used by the Alpine cheese merchant.

you are right about the going rate - the minimum wage is £8.72 per hr - back in August 2018 the Big Issue reported that they earn on average £400-£450 per week as its piece work - a fruit famer in April of this year said he paid between £11- £15 per hr depending on productivity - laughably the Scum in desperation back in 2018 was saying BRITS could earn £700 pw picking fruit
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Just replied to your post where you called it enslavement fella. I’m of the general opinion that the best course of action is

If a job has low take up due to conditions or pay the best outcome is to make the job better or pay more or a mixture of both. Call it market forces if you like. This may not be liked by a company or a govt if the job is public sector for obvious reasons.

I don’t think importing labour to do it cheaply is good for the workforce. Back in the day it would be called taking the piss. Now if the worker is British born or Romanian born I don’t care as they should get the correct pay for the work they do in the country they reside.

The more the market is tilted towards the employee rather than employer the better it is for the vast majority of the country.

It seems a bit of a contradiction to moan about zero hour contracts , low pay and poor workers rights then because of brexit give a thumbs up to imported cheap labour. You can’t have it both ways. I accept the negatives of my outlook and remainers should consider theirs.
 
hilts said:
Just replied to your post where you called it enslavement fella. I’m of the general opinion that the best course of action is

If a job has low take up due to conditions or pay the best outcome is to make the job better or pay more or a mixture of both. Call it market forces if you like. This may not be liked by a company or a govt if the job is public sector for obvious reasons.

I don’t think importing labour to do it cheaply is good for the workforce. Back in the day it would be called taking the piss. Now if the worker is British born or Romanian born I don’t care as they should get the correct pay for the work they do in the country they reside.

The more the market is tilted towards the employee rather than employer the better it is for the vast majority of the country.

It seems a bit of a contradiction to moan about zero hour contracts , low pay and poor workers rights then because of brexit give a thumbs up to imported cheap labour. You can’t have it both ways. I accept the negatives of my outlook and remainers should consider theirs.
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so why not make our doctors and nurses pay match that of those in the USA or Australia? We are exploiting them here with poor wages and conditions. Thats the juxtaposition. You focus on low pay here for foreign workers whereas many of them see it as hitting the jackpot. Just because a doctor seems to do well here they can still be being exploited in an international comparison. Its all about international pay differentials but the way the Brexit argument pictures it we are the ones doing the exploiting. I'd welcome farm labourers earning £20 per hour or maybe up to £30k per year - however I wouldn't be able to afford what they pick any more so they would be out of a job anyway or my employer would have to pay me £50k + pa - its market forces something that is very popular amongst some.

If you g back to the 60's and 70's Brits did that work - they were dirt poor living often in houses that went with the job but they quite rightly fucked off to the cities to get better paying jobs. Those that were left upskilled to become the people who fixed the combines - sold the new enhanced farming machinery and installed the equipment in the milking parlours etc etc thus creating the need for the foreign labour to do the jobs they left because the pay was so poor.
 
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hilts said:
Just replied to your post where you called it enslavement fella. I’m of the general opinion that the best course of action is

If a job has low take up due to conditions or pay the best outcome is to make the job better or pay more or a mixture of both. Call it market forces if you like. This may not be liked by a company or a govt if the job is public sector for obvious reasons.

I don’t think importing labour to do it cheaply is good for the workforce. Back in the day it would be called taking the piss. Now if the worker is British born or Romanian born I don’t care as they should get the correct pay for the work they do in the country they reside.

The more the market is tilted towards the employee rather than employer the better it is for the vast majority of the country.

It seems a bit of a contradiction to moan about zero hour contracts , low pay and poor workers rights then because of brexit give a thumbs up to imported cheap labour. You can’t have it both ways. I accept the negatives of my outlook and remainers should consider theirs.
Click to expand...
Full circle on this bit of the thread. Market forces mean Dutch growers will be saying the extra costs of tariffs and the risk of delays and flowers withering in the truck mean they are not going to supply UK florists and garden centres. Less supply means higher prices.
 
bluethrunthru said:
so why not make our doctors and nurses pay match that of those in the USA or Australia? We are exploiting them here with poor wages and conditions. Thats the juxtaposition. You focus on low pay here for foreign workers whereas many of them see it as hitting the jackpot. Just because a doctor seems to do well here they can still be being exploited in an international comparison. Its all about international pay differentials but the way the Brexit argument pictures it we are the ones doing the exploiting. I'd welcome farm labourers earning £20 per hour or maybe up to £30k per year - however I wouldn't be able to afford what they pick any more so they would be out of a job anyway or my employer would have to pay me £50k + pa - its market forces something that is very popular amongst some.

If you g back to the 60's and 70's Brits did that work - they were dirt poor living often in houses that went with the job but they quite rightly fucked off to the cities to get better paying jobs. Those that were left upskilled to become the people who fixed the combines - sold the new enhanced farming machinery and installed the equipment in the milking parlours etc etc thus creating the need for the foreign labour to do the jobs they left because the pay was so poor.
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Your first point about doctors was just deflection which I can't be arsed with anymore. Because of that I didn't read the rest. If you made any good points then it's a shame because I won't ever see them.

No offence meant just can't be bothered with the long standing tactic used on here.
 
Vic said:
Full circle on this bit of the thread. Market forces mean Dutch growers will be saying the extra costs of tariffs and the risk of delays and flowers withering in the truck mean they are not going to supply UK florists and garden centres. Less supply means higher prices.
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I don't wander in here much nowadays so the full circle part isn't something I'm aware of or contributed to. I believe I stated I accept there will be negatives to my point of view. There isn't an argument to be won anymore so I'm pretty comfortable as is tbh.
 
Vic said:
Full circle on this bit of the thread. Market forces mean Dutch growers will be saying the extra costs of tariffs and the risk of delays and flowers withering in the truck mean they are not going to supply UK florists and garden centres. Less supply means higher prices.
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Much easier to buy flowers from cheaper suppliers.

www.gov.uk

UK and Kenya secure a trade agreement

Negotiations on a trade deal with Kenya have been finalised today
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
jaseirai said:
Much easier to buy flowers from cheaper suppliers.

www.gov.uk

UK and Kenya secure a trade agreement

Negotiations on a trade deal with Kenya have been finalised today
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
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Excellent.
I prefer my fresh flowers to have travelled from the other side of the world. That way they can go straight into the bin instead of leaving them on the window sill for 3 days to slowly rot. Much better for the enviroment and probably cheaper an all..
 
stonerblue said:
Excellent.
I prefer my fresh flowers to have travelled from the other side of the world. That way they can go straight into the bin instead of leaving them on the window sill for 3 days to slowly rot. Much better for the enviroment and probably cheaper an all..
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If you read the article the import figures are vases on 2019 - your flowers already come from there :-)
 
stonerblue said:
Excellent.
I prefer my fresh flowers to have travelled from the other side of the world. That way they can go straight into the bin instead of leaving them on the window sill for 3 days to slowly rot. Much better for the enviroment and probably cheaper an all..
Click to expand...

Next time you go into Tesco, have a look at where the flowers come from.
 
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