Another new Brexit thread

[Metal Biker]

You’re not doing a great job of selling it tbh.

Selling what?

 

[west didsblue]

Maybe so but I know what it means.

If you know what it means perhaps you could explain how we get more of it if we're either sovereign as a nation or we're not.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

You expect babies and children to vote now?

Well okay then. Because that says 43.6% of the voting population voted for the Government we have, you know ones who are eligible, and actually took the time to vote? Those who don't vote aren't backing ANY of the candidates. (Bigger issue is on voter apathy, but again with you it's "the ToRiEs!!")

But you're forgetting the most fundamental aspect; WE will have voted on it.

Its a bit like the referendum result.... it was actually 43.6% of those that voted. The vast majority of the UK population have a government that they didnt vote for. if that was a foreign country we'd be calling for regime change.

 

[BobKowalski]

For those that keep banging on about sovereignty I presume the ultimate aim is to leave the WTO, ICAO, IATA, IMO, WHO, the UN and all its agencies, the Paris climate accord, IANA, IMF, NATO, OECD, World Bank and every single international organisation so we won’t need to follow all those pesky rules that are not set just by us, and that govern our interaction with the rest of the world. Then we can do anything we want. Is that the sovereignty that we want?

It would seem so, but only with respect to Europe. The same thinking would not apply to a deal with the US, nor any other country. The obsession with sovereignty applies only to Europe as it is driven by Europhobia.

This position is driven by emotion not reason, hence the Govts obsession with shoehorning in references to ‘our independence’ and ‘sovereignty’ every time talks with the EU hit an impasse. It’s like they are inoculating themselves against catching ‘pro-European thinking’.

It is also why everything here has to be ‘the best‘ or ‘world beating’. Like making a big deal over authorising the vaccine earlier, a vaccine that was neither developed nor manufactured here and received funding from the EU, but as we authorised it first we get to boast about it. That it also means we circumvented the full authorisation procedure is unimportant, ‘beating’ Europe is the only thing that matters.

It is juvenile and borderline moronic and will only get worse, but it’s where we are.

 

[Vic]

You expect babies and children to vote now?

Well okay then. Because that says 43.6% of the voting population voted for the Government we have, you know ones who are eligible, and actually took the time to vote? Those who don't vote aren't backing ANY of the candidates. (Bigger issue is on voter apathy, but again with you it's "the ToRiEs!!")

But you're forgetting the most fundamental aspect; WE will have voted on it.

So 56.4% don't want this government...

I've forgotten what your point was. Wasn't it that you think the EU Parliament is undemocratic because the UK can't outvote the French and Germans? But we all vote(d) there for different parties, which make political alliances. Thankfully the fascist group joined by the Tories didn't have a majority in the EU Parliament.

 

[Vic]

Maybe so but I know what it means.

Looks like with no live theatre, it'll be pantomime season here. Oh no you don't.

 

[Saddleworth2]

How does it feel voting for SNP across the board in Scotland, only to discover that they have a small voice in a wider UK Parliament, where the Government in power does not contain a single representative that you chose to authorise decisions that could negatively impact your livelihood and make decisions you legitimately oppose? Some empathy there, surely?

Empathy? My views are pretty well outlined on the Scottish Politics thread.

 

[mcfc1632]

I will read it and may come back if I deem it important enough.

Am I reading your post correctly though. 'I am considerably smarter than you lot and i bet you can't guess what I'm thinking albeit the truth should be obvious to anyone that isn't a complete moron. However if anyone responds I reserve the right 1) not to reply because I don't like you 2) to be condescending and patronise your worthy but ultimately intellectually lacking attempt'

Did I miss anything?

As there was no analysis forthcoming - I am guessing that you did not find anything in the article that was 'important enough'?

 

[inbetween]

So that’s a far more eloquent no from you. Because in fact the U.K. only voted against and lost a very very small proportion of votes on new legislation. Which is why, when asked nobody can actually reference one.

They couldn't name one but does that mean we should pack our bags, close Parliament and just choose the EU as our Parliament instead? Your answer to this will be no we need to keep our Parliament but why?

Many on here tend to defend these sort of things but then struggle to explain why. Like everything in the EU it's actually just a necessary evil for the greater good like keeping our economy going. This is the only reason why many people voted to remain because certainly none of them voted in favour of outside lawmaking. Half of these people don't even know who their lawmaker (MEP) is.

It's equivalent to if you were a steward working at Old Trafford, you hate the place but it pays the wages.

 

[Vic]

I didn’t ask if we were, I asked what was meant by an “outdated view”.

I changed my mind. I think that what you mean by sovereignty is a newfangled view, that any international treaty diminishes or dilutes our sovereignty. Like being a little bit pregnant.

 

[mcfc1632]

The UK is the angry shortarse at the bar who's always looking for a fight. The rest of the world takes the piss out of the raging dwarf and knows they can put their hand on his head to stop the annoying **** swinging at them.

Newsflash:

The Empire ended long ago. Accept who we are in the world and act accordingly.

We could follow a social democratic model of scandanavia or become an Atlantic version of Indian inequality. I know which ones the Tories want us to be and so no deal is favourable to put us plebs in our place.

Are you from the UK?

If so - did something bad happen some time ago that led to this apparent all-consuming dislike for the UK?

 

[Metal Biker]

Empathy? My views are pretty well outlined on the Scottish Politics thread.

Care to readdress them here, even briefly, or is this a 'no' from you, can't tell.

Do you at least empathise with the 'motivation' behind those wanting the UK to separate IF you have similar grievances about the Westminster System as we did the EuroParl setup?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

You expect babies and children to vote now?

Well okay then. Because that says 43.6% of the voting population voted for the Government we have, you know ones who are eligible, and actually took the time to vote? Those who don't vote aren't backing ANY of the candidates. (Bigger issue is on voter apathy, but again with you it's "the ToRiEs!!")

But you're forgetting the most fundamental aspect; WE will have voted on it.

Any discourse with that particular poster usually ends up in an unhinged rant about grasping tories and winds up with veiled racism accusations. The fact that no government in history has been elected by 100 percent of the population is ignored, it's just the ravings of someone utterly incapable of accepting results.

 

[Metal Biker]

Any discourse with that particular poster usually ends up in an unhinged rant about grasping tories and winds up with veiled racism accusations. The fact that no government in history has been elected by 100 percent of the population is ignored, it's just the ravings of someone utterly incapable of accepting results.

Those same people who will shout "70% of the people voted AGAINST this Government!" whilst ignoring that means that 75%-80% voted against HIS party of choice by the same token.

 

[Saddleworth2]

They couldn't name one but does that mean we should pack our bags, close Parliament and just choose the EU as our Parliament instead? Your answer to this will be no we need to keep our Parliament but why?

Many on here tend to defend these sort of things but then struggle to explain why. Like everything in the EU it's actually just a necessary evil for the greater good like keeping our economy going. This is the only reason why many people voted to remain because certainly none of them voted in favour of outside lawmaking. Half of these people don't even know who their lawmaker (MEP) is.

It's equivalent to if you were a steward working at Old Trafford, you hate the place but it pays the wages.

Don't hate it at all mate. See it as a force for good. Always have. Hopefully an independent Scotland will soon rejoin it.

 

[Saddleworth2]

As there was no analysis forthcoming - I am guessing that you did not find anything in the article that was 'important enough'?

Oh dear. Catch up mate.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Don't hate it at all mate. See it as a force for good. Always have. Hopefully an independent Scotland will soon rejoin it.

Independent?

 

[Metal Biker]

Don't hate it at all mate. See it as a force for good. Always have. Hopefully an independent Scotland will soon rejoin it.

But you disapprove of the UK union which works on generally the same premise?


Okay, interesting.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Independent?

Absolutely. We will have sovereign power to decide to pool our sovereigntY ;-)

 

[Metal Biker]

Independent?

Sounds like he wants an Independent Scotland to become part of a Federal Europe to me.

Bit of a contradiction in terms though.