Another new Brexit thread

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Mëtal Bikër said:
Cue comments like "buT tHe Eu DoEsN't dO tHaT!"

They must make all those regulations and treaties that members are forced to adhere to, for the hell of it! ;)
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Like all the free trade treaties with other countries that we lose next month. But we can now negotiate our own worse ones.
 
west didsblue said:
That is exactly what I am saying.
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Then we agree.

However just to add, what’s called absoluteness in sovereignty, I believe, is moving away from treaties that do this sort of thing.

It’s impossible to gain the above in 2020 but leaving the EU is a step.

Not that I agree with doing so.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
You're right, when we joined, we agreed to losing that sovereignty, by embracing a foreign legal framework, yet we're still being told that we haven't lost any whilst we were a member, it's probably been said a half dozen times in the last half dozen pages.
So finally, we can all agree that we did.
Which is probably the biggest reason, along with a reluctance to embrace federalism, and a realisation that we no longer had what we originally enjoyed, that we voted to leave.
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Why is that so hard to understand?

It is amazing to me that the EU gets a free pass on the damage it has done by forcing all members towards a fully integrated model (including the UK - the vetoes and opt outs won't protect us)

The Remainer argument seems to be exclusively limited to the impact of the UK losing out on being members of a large trading bloc

WTF!!!

Most of us would have been happy with that status - it is the EU that has brought abut the change and actually brought about Brexit

Edit - I know that is typed a bit TOTH and not expressed well - so will attract some ridicule - but can't be arsed to change it

But think about it - there is truth in there
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Lol - no diagram for the world according to the EU? It seems to have gone over your head that brexit is about the whole map being yellow, not the myopic 27 nation view of the world with the EU as its centre. This strange and toxic combination of little England mentality combined with a sort of EU related Stockholm syndrome totally misses the point of leaving the EU.
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Well explained

You hold up a helpful mirror - people should reflect
 
Saddleworth2 said:
It is Relative to what we have at present.
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Not you personally, but it looks to me as if the SNP just want to swap subservience to the 'auld' enemy, with subservience to another funding source. It's just about hating the English and wanting to change sugar daddies - absolutely fine btw, but to dress it up as freedom is disingenuous. The EU thing is just an excuse - the SNP wanted to leave the UK before we even joined the EU, while we were in it, and still do now.
 
mcfc1632 said:
My neighbour in Cyprus (Cypriot not Brit) popped round earlier and mentioned this - he actually said.....

"....you must be very pleased that you can get your dad vaccinated - the UK seem to be ahead of the rest of Europe...."

Now let me freely admit that his next comment was probably attracted by my reply;

"...perhaps one of the benefits of not being tied to EU programmes and centralised budget..."

but he then said....

"....when we voted to join the EU the key message from the politicians was that joining the EU would lead to sorting out the issue with Turkey..... ....That has not happened and for the average Cypriot the quality of life has gone down..."
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I can't comment on the latter "quality of life" claim, but as for sorting out Turkey, it was the Greek Cypriots who rejected reunification, and what did they expect the EU to do? I'd be interested to know what this "key message" actually was. Was it a promise like join the EU and you'll be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border? That sounds more like a key message.
 
mcfc1632 said:
My neighbour in Cyprus (Cypriot not Brit) popped round earlier and mentioned this - he actually said.....

"....you must be very pleased that you can get your dad vaccinated - the UK seem to be ahead of the rest of Europe...."

Now let me freely admit that his next comment was probably attracted by my reply;

"...perhaps one of the benefits of not being tied to EU programmes and centralised budget..."

but he then said....

"....when we voted to join the EU the key message from the politicians was that joining the EU would lead to sorting out the issue with Turkey..... ....That has not happened and for the average Cypriot the quality of life has gone down..."
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Fascinating. If I'd had more insight into the Turkey/ Cyprus situation I might have voted leave.
 
bluethrunthru said:
From one of the architects of Brexit and a search of BM gives plenty of posters referencing the phrase - its not hard

www.thelondoneconomic.com

WATCH: Remember when Gove promised UK would "hold all the cards" after Brexit?

The London Economic - He went on to claim that no "responsible government" would trigger Article 50 without an agreement in place - Politics
www.thelondoneconomic.com www.thelondoneconomic.com
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It is harder now the search facility doesn't take you back to when those claims were being made.
 
inbetween said:
.....The Labour fellas arguing on here don't like to tell you that half of Corbyn's manifesto last year was completely impossible to implement because much of it broke EU state aid rules.

This is why Corbyn and the GENUINE socialists generally are against the EU. They see it as a bureaucratic representation of capitalism but this is often accepted as a necessary evil because of the large socio-democratic make up of the EU........
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Sorry - don't like to mess about with the posts of others - but felt that extra word was needed

There are a lot of people that are seemingly confused in their self-identification
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
They have worked out that calling laws regulations sidesteps awkward questions of legislative legitimacy I think. Certainly much of the discourse on here from both sides tends to imply that these regulations are seen as carrying the weight of law - the negotiations around market access, borders and custom union also seem to suggest this. I'm happy to ignore it all tbh, but the impression I get is that the EU want their regs to be taken rather seriously - almost as if they were laws.
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I find the argument that you were faced with here quite a weak one

You are right - the EU bring forward 'regulations' - they are less contentious and more easily slipped through

The EU are good - indeed excellent - at learning how to best 'present things' to have them become 'enforceable regulations'

The best example surely was the TCE:

Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe - Wikipedia

They quickly learned not to be so blatant and went back to the approach of naming a treaty after the CITY it was signed in - very successful - as one extract from that article shows:

"Following a period of reflection, the Treaty of Lisbon was created to replace the Constitutional Treaty. This contained many of the changes that were originally placed in the Constitutional Treaty but was formulated as amendments to the existing treaties."

Now - all this stuff about the EU not wanting to impinge on the sovereignty of member states - yet they put all that effort into creating a constitution and ensuring that it is accepted by all members....?

Seems to ring a bit hollow to me?

Of course the big lesson the EU learned was - that if you disguise them well enough then 'regulations (aka laws)' can be slipped through in treaties - and if you occasionally get caught out due to some nuisance referendum you can get the decision overturned after offering some sweeties or threats
 
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journolud said:
Fascinating. If I'd had more insight into the Turkey/ Cyprus situation I might have voted leave.
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Are you being a bit limited in thinking UK only

He - a Cypriot - was talking about disenchantment with them - Cyprus having joined the EU

Broaden your horizons mate and think about and discuss the situations of people beyond your immediate locale
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Not you personally, but it looks to me as if the SNP just want to swap subservience to the 'auld' enemy, with subservience to another funding source. It's just about hating the English and wanting to change sugar daddies - absolutely fine btw, but to dress it up as freedom is disingenuous. The EU thing is just an excuse - the SNP wanted to leave the UK before we even joined the EU, while we were in it, and still do now.
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Won’t argue with that. Brexit has been a gift for the SNP. Support forIndependence is not the same as blind support for the SNP.
 
mcfc1632 said:
LOL

Do you wake up in a sour mood and deteriorate as the day goes on?

Just a bit of sarcastic banter mate
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I wake up in a good mood, then start reading rubbish on here. I should stay away, but...

By the way, all the Leavers who were "forced out": why are they back? Did a WhatsApp message go out?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Are you being a bit limited in thinking UK only

He - a Cypriot - was talking about disenchantment with them - Cyprus having joined the EU

Broaden your horizons mate and think about and discuss the situations of people beyond your immediate locale
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Lol, was just a bit of sarcastic banter mate but now that you mention it, do you think your neighbour represents the majority view?

You don’t know any Romanians I can ask do you?
 
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