Another new Brexit thread

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Vic said:
Still waiting for when a BRINO deal was ever available. Sheer bunkum / aka gaslighting / aka "disingenuous" / aka a lie.

And you're deluded if you don't think Bluemoon will remember how you voted, for ever. You will always share the blame (I will not be here in 50 years to see the benefit).
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I've already prepared for the apocalypse by posting on here as a remainer with one of my other accounts - even going so far as to argue with myself occasionally. If it all goes tits up I'll be standing shoulder to shoulder with you and bob posting under the name of ******** and telling @mcfc1632 that he fucking owns brexit and has ruined my life.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Are you saying that you think that the UK leaving the EU is easier than Scotland leaving the UK or asking if I think that?
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mcfc1632 said:
If you are asking me - the real (in reality probably only credible) chance for Scotland to leave the UK was in 2014 - just think about the differences between then and the now/future.....
  • All parties would have been in the EU - there would have been no issues with borders etc.
  • The experience of negotiating a WA would not have been established and it would have been a 'soft' outcome for Scotland
  • And lots of other easily managed issues
Now...........
  • How are Scotland going to deal with the border issue - a monkey that would have been on the UK's shoulder in the 2020 negotiations - but will now be on a future independent Scotland's - just think about that single issue - the problem will now be all Scotland's/EU's
  • How are they going to deal with a) the loss of their biggest market, b) dependency of access to their 2nd biggest market via the UK and c) the insurmountable challenge - with regard to time and money - to being able to invest in infrastructure to do something about it
  • The approach to and scope of a WA is now well established and as part of that - what will be the size of the WA bill and who is going to pay it - perhaps a welcoming EU;-)
  • and many other very difficult issues such as dependency on UK departments such as DWP etc. that the newly independent Scotland are very dependent on
Hey - I have no axe to grind - if anything I support the issue of Scotland leaving the UK - they should be able to always self-determine. And they should have the opportunity to do so - I just fully expect that when that opportunity comes around again the result will be very different to what a lot of people on here think during the 'heat' of current events

I best not go too far off topic
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Ha! Lol etc.
Really sorry, I could have saved you a lot of typing.
I understood your view on this the first time you wrote it.
You may well be right too, but that’s a discussion for another thread.

Still think you leaving the EU is a damn site easier than leaving the UK.

This wasn’t a question. It was actually a statement of my own POV.
After a couple of my own rants in here I thought that would have been clearer.
I was comparing Britain leaving the EU to the trials and tribulations of Ireland leaving the UK, which some in our parts would still maintain we haven’t fully.

But having read your views again there is an argument that the Scots may find it more difficult than they think. It may not be as simple as a referendum.
Who knows?
Be careful what you wish for and all that.
 
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mancity2012_eamo said:
Ha! Lol etc.
Really sorry, I could have saved you a lot of typing.
I understood your view on this the first time you wrote it.
You may well be right too, but that’s a discussion for another thread.

Still think you leaving the EU is a damn site easier than leaving the UK.

This wasn’t a question. It was actually a statement of my own POV.
After a couple of my own rants in here I thought that would have been clearer.
I was comparing Britain leaving the EU to the trials and tribulations of Ireland leaving the UK, which some in our parts would still maintain we haven’t fully.

But having read your views again there is an argument that the Scots may find it more difficult than they think. It may not be as simple as a referendum.
Who knows?
Be careful what you wish for and all that.
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Ha Ha - went straight over my head

I should have realised that you were referring to Ireland's bad experience - but (wrongly) thought you were referring to Scotland

FWIW my views that Scotland will in the end reject independence is just my assessment of the facts/issues that will come out into the public awareness and challenge the currently prevailing and very understandable nationalist sentiments.

I certainly have no preference on the subject - other than they decide for themselves
 
mcfc1632 said:
...
The IMB came to the fore when Barnier, or one of his team, overstepped the mark with comments essentially suggesting that the EU might act in its use of the NIP to effectively create a blockade.

The IMB was a robust response and certainly caused some action/irritation/etc.
....

The UK will have handled this well - but only so long as the drafting of NIP detail removes the pathetic threat that was made.
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What did Barnier or one of his team say?

Irritation? Opprobrium worldwide.

Plus House of Lords opposition meant it was not going to pass.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I chronological order - my strategic plan is to:

a) Initially - blame it all on those thick fuckers that voted for it and demand that they own it

b) Accept residency in a EU country so I can keep my options open for my family

c) Then point out that we should all also blame it all on those stupid metropolitan elite Remainers that fucked up the BRINO option in 2018

d) Claim that I was a staunch Leave supporter - if it all goes well
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Just what is this crap about BRINO in 2018? Put up or shut up.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Specifically for the UK - the (limp) excuse is proximity

This is one of the legacies of the May/Robbins era of incompetence - as was the unfettered backstop

May was only ever right about one thing - no deal is indeed better than a bad deal - otherwise how unlucky was the the UK to have her in charge at that critical time.

We should not accept this to the extent that the EU want to define it - No-Deal is the better option - but I worry Johnson will fold
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In fact, May was completely wrong and her term was one of her biggest lies. It looks like no deal it is as throwing it back to Frost and Barnier for 4 days is hardly likely to provide the impetus or guidance they need.
Agreement to a mutual ratchet cause vs no deal. We shall soon see the consequences of the latter. I wonder how damaging to the UK the former would have been other than denying the right to shout 'we do what we want' across the channel.
 
Len Rum said:
On this business of having to observe LPF in the future which BoJo was ranting on about at PMQs why not agree to it subject to review in the future by some independent committee where one side can appeal if it thinks the other is deviating, and if the committee agrees then that side has the right to impose tariffs on the particular goods in question?
Messy I know but by rejecting future LPF out of hand now you get all these tariffs on all goods now in a situation where you might actually be complying with EU rules on all or at least some goods.
Even if this system proved unworkable it could at least buy some time?
Simples?.
(probably not).
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Good point, and one I could get behind. There's a slight problem though, of the sticking points we know of LPF, and Fishing, there's also the position of the EU, who want any future disputes post agreement to be mediated by the ECJ.
Which is akin to us playing the Rags on Saturday, and having a referee with a
Rags badge on his shirt who's been a season ticket holder at Old Rope for 30 years.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Good point, and one I could get behind. There's a slight problem though, of the sticking points we know of LPF, and Fishing, there's also the position of the EU, who want any future disputes post agreement to be mediated by the ECJ.
Which is akin to us playing the Rags on Saturday, and having a referee with a
Rags badge on his shirt who's been a season ticket holder at Old Rope for 30 years.
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I don't understand why any trade related disputes couldn't be managed through WTO. They have dispute processes for members. I never saw this one as being insurmountable compared to the LPF. EU have used the WTO already under their agreements with Canada and Norway.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I don't understand why any trade related disputes couldn't be managed through WTO. They have dispute processes for members. I never saw this one as being insurmountable compared to the LPF. EU have used the WTO already under their agreements with Canada and Norway.
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Good point, and neither do I, but when we're the only country in the world to
be asked to cede territory and abide by foreign rules in order to trade, then
I can sort of understand it.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
My own plan is to start saying I voted remain and blame anything bad on Covid. Once we get a covid vaccine we should be able to get back to climate change/BLM and all that stuff.
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Hadn't you heard. The new target (now its not EU, immigrants....) is......Scotland.
Brexit is the Scots fault, selfish bastards.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I don't understand why any trade related disputes couldn't be managed through WTO. They have dispute processes for members. I never saw this one as being insurmountable compared to the LPF. EU have used the WTO already under their agreements with Canada and Norway.
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It’s because the EU loses quite often at the WTO, unlike the ECJ.
 
Vic said:
Stats? Cases?
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WTO | European Union - Member information

MEMBER INFORMATION: The European Union and the WTO - This page gathers key information on the European Union' participation in the WTO
www.wto.org

Click on the DS LINK to take you to the individual case . Scroll to the bottom to see the outcome. Looks to me like the majority were resolved without intervention from the WTO.
 
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