Another new Brexit thread

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Thanks mate, you too.

Still no sign of him other than my neighbours cctv last night but at least he’s not stuck or in trouble.
Our cat (sadly no longer with us) completely disappeared for five days a while back, then just rocked up out of the blue like nothing had happened. Hopefully yours will be back before you know it.

Sorry, just realised we’re veering way off topic here. Anyway, back to Brexit...
 
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They’re not but anyone, on any side of the house, that doesn’t, is a selfish prick.

Wouldnt you agree?

No, from what I’ve read of the deal so far, I’d be very surprised if the Lib Dem’s don’t either abstain or vote no.

The one thing about parliament, for all its issues the last four years, is that it has been a mirror of the electorate in how divided it is. There will be a lot of people not happy with the deal agreed and wanting the person representing their voice in parliament to reflect that.

I get why Starmers doing what he’s doing. He’s leading a party that is very split in terms of Brexit. The best thing he can do is not be a blocker to it or look to stifle it in his potential voters and instead focus on holding the tories to account for the consequences of it.

For some of the other parties, they don’t have to do that. They don’t have to play along with the narrative that the only two options are Johnson’s deal or no deal as they can and should be pointing out that’s only a reality because he made it so.

He can do that because he has the majority he has in parliament. He’s essentially given that binary choice to his own party though (and set the narrative to the electorate), which Labour are right to allow them to own it. None of the rest are though.
 
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And the next right wing wankfest....

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CANZUK
 
I hate to break it to you, but quite a few politicians put themselves before the general population/vote to “ruin people’s lives” on a pretty regular basis.
Every one of them who voted for article 50.

While I just about think Labour should vote for it, I can't get upset at any MP who refuses to vote to support a deal that is worse than what we had as members.

Happy Christmas, all.
 
The logical conclusion for you, is that what you mean?

Doesn’t matter what the deal was you’d be unhappy. Unless it was remain. Leavers have got most things that they wanted (pretty much all the main points that we discussed during elections and votes)


Erm the champagne post was an obvious quip so either

You're daft, dishonest or just like a moan for no apparent reason. I think this nonsense was forecast by my good self. Some of you can't help but not disappoint.

As a democrat(you will need to probably look that up) which was one of the main reasons I voted leave it would be hypocritical for me to see my arse if only a couple of us would have been happy with no deal.

Getting ones own way is trait shown by some bluemoon remainers not leavers. At some point it might be best to let it go fella.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and surmise that you're really hurting today aren't you mate?

Way behind having had a Brexit-free Xmas eve.

Just read this one article:

Brexit deal done: What we know so far about trade agreement between UK and EU (msn.com)

For Leavers - what is there not to like? And, I particularly like the 4 year review option - very clever.

Going to be interesting when I find time to catch-up these 20 odd pages that I am behind and also read up on what is being said about the detail of the deal

But given that - back on page 4863 where I am - there are a number of the more strident Remainers demanding that Leavers must be disappointed - and suggesting that they must be lying to say they are not - probably speaks volumes?

We have genuinely left the EU it seems - which seemed impossible before 2015 - and, it seems, on terms way beyond what seemed remotely possible in 2017-2019. As I say, for Leavers - what is there not to like?

I think that, when catching up on all these pages I am behind, I will find that I am speaking for the vast majority of Leavers on here to say that this is a very welcome outcome indeed and one that will allow both parties to move on - which is all to the good.

Let's hope we on here can all move on as well.

Merry Xmas everybody
 
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A summary from the London Evening Standard​

Fishing​

The UK gave ground on fisheries, Prime Minister Boris Johnson admitted, but said that as a result of the deal the country will be “an independent coastal state with full control of our waters” and would see its share of UK fish rising “substantially”.

Tariffs​

The deal is worth £668 billion a year and will enable UK goods to be sold without tariffs or quotas in the EU market – allowing UK companies to do even more business with the continent, the Prime Minister said

Level playing field​

Brussels said the agreement included binding enforcement and dispute settlement mechanisms which will “ensure that rights of businesses, consumers and individuals are respected”, though Mr Johnson suggested the EU had made concessions on this area.

Services​

The UK said there are “unprecedented measures to allow UK solicitors, barristers and advocates to practise in the EU using their UK title”, as well as a “highly comprehensive deal in digital trade”.

State aid​

The deal ends the EU State Aid regime and allows the UK to introduce its own “modern subsidy system so that we can better support businesses to grow and thrive”, the UK said.

Laws​

Mr Johnson said that after January 1, British laws “will be made solely by the British Parliament interpreted by British judges sitting in UK courts and the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will come to an end”.

Transport​

The agreement provides for “continued and sustainable air, road, rail and maritime connectivity”, the European Commission said, with provisions to ensure passenger rights and transport safety are not undermined.

Security​

The Prime Minister said he was “absolutely confident” the deal would protect police co-operation, the ability to catch criminals and to share intelligence across the European continent “in the way that we have done for many years”.

Students​

Mr Johnson said the Erasmus student exchange programme – which had seen participants able to study across Europe – would be replaced by a worldwide scheme named after Bletchley Park code breaker Alan Turing.

Healthcare​

The agreement will enable UK citizens to access healthcare when travelling in the EU, with reciprocal cover for EU member states which are responsible for the healthcare of an individual, according to a UK Government summary.

State pensions​

The agreement provides for the uprating of the UK state pension paid to pensioners who retire to the EU, the Government said.



Science

The UK will be able to continue participating in the Horizon Europe scientific research programme, as well as the Euratom Research and Training programme and the space programme Copernicus.

Review date​



A formal review of the arrangements can take place after four years. If either side does not believe the system is working fairly, they will be able to end the trade agreement – meaning the two sides would trade on WTO terms.

Preparations​

People and businesses must still prepare for the end of the transition period, Mr Johnson stressed, though said there were “all sorts of things” in the agreement to make sure “things flow as smoothly as we possibly can” at the borders.

Celebrations​

The Prime Minister declined to recommend how people should celebrate the deal and the end of the transition period, saying: “I think we’ve done quite enough bossing people around recommending this or that over the last 10 months or so.”

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The devil will be in the detail, the document is 500 pages long and obviously things will be clearer in the coming days/


The cynic in me says this was stage managed as Johnson needed a boost for Xmas especially after the surge in Covid. I personally would have preferred no deal at all. The one glaring omission from the summary and it may come out later is whether workers rights are to be continued or are they now defunct.
 
Haaving had a real look it is probably the only deal at present we will get with the sides who were negotiating it keeping to thier beliefs and expectations.

I would say the Erasmus part that many have been saddened by I can fully understand and maybe we should have stayed in, I don't see how denying students this cultural and life experience helps future generations here or on the continent.


I do have serious issues with how this deal has been done, yesterday shown that to me.

What I mean is I really believe the agreements made to finish the deal we were ready to accept maybe a week or so ago when pretty much all aspect were slowly leaking out.

But as alway the grand baffoon, the snake oil saleman Johnson needed his Christmas Eve present to the nation reveal along with bluff and bluster press conference and stupid media pictures of him posing.

I find is downheartening that every decision he makes and announcement is done for maximum showmanship like running the country is a game and jovial japes for him.

But it is done, let us all move forward now and back to dealing with covid and the countries recovery.
 
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Haaving had a real look ot os probably the only deal at present we will get with the sides who were negotiating it keeping to thier beliefs and expectations.
I think that is probably accurate, both sides have saved face
I would say the Erasmus part that many have been saddened by I can fully understand and maybe we should have stayed in, I don't see how denying students this cultural and life experience helps future generations here or on the continent.
I struggle with that too. From a purely Mancunian perspective, students play a huge part in the economy of our City. Students though as I understand it where part of the immigration figures and they should never have been classed as immigrants.
I do have serious issues with how this deal has been done, yesterday shown that to me.

What I meam is I really believe the agreements made to finish the deal we were ready to accept maybe a week or so ago when pretty much all aspect were slowly leaking out.

But as alway the grand baffoon, the snake oil saleman Johnson needed his Christmas Eve present to the nation reveal along with bluff and bluster press conference and stupid media pictures of him posing.

I find is downheartening that every decision he makes and announcement is done for maximum showmanship like running the country is a game and jovial japes for him.
It is a game to him, i don't think this has enhanced his reputation beyond his fan boys and I think a lot more will see it as political showmanship
But it is done, let us all move forward now and back to dealing with covid and the countries recovery.
True, lets hope the country can pull together, the whole episode has been very damaging to the nations reputation and it is has caused unprecedented splits. acrimony and yes hatred. I put a lot of that squarely at the feet of Farage and I hope one of the real benefits of leaving is that he is consigned to the rubbish dump of history and is never seen again. We are a decent country with decent people and hopefully now this is over all the propagandising that has been associated with like the ridiculous culture wars and the constant need to lie will stop and we can get on with life again in a normal country where people actually like each other again.
 
Amazingly our govt website isn't up to date on the subject the lazy fuckers lol - I googled it substituting a US citizen instead of a GB one because I assure we have the same 3rd country status- looks like yes....and no. As they are both Schengen you can move between but your 90 days start when you enter Germany so anywhere in the UK you are chomping into your "roaming time"



90 days in any 180.. and you cant run them back to back .... overstay and you get a ban (minimum of three years)
 
I am glad there is a deal and look forward to understanding the detail.
i was willing to give some credit to Johnson for completing this and with Frost, on the face of it, getting slightly more from the EU than I thought.
The sight of his gurning triumphalism at the press conference was pretty sickening though. Some natural decorum might have been nice given the circumstances the country is going through at present.
 
I see we may not have the usual Christmas moratorium! Partly because no-one's going anywhere, and we don't often get a treaty to pore over on Christmas Day.

If this is true: "A formal review of the arrangements can take place after four years. If either side does not believe the system is working fairly, they will be able to end the trade agreement – meaning the two sides would trade on WTO terms"
then the 2024 election will be just when we're deciding whether Brexit is working fairly! So I predict a rapid repealing of the Fixed Terms Parliament Act and an election in May 2023, the last one in the (Dis)United Kingdom.
 
And if this is true:

Rules of origin

This determines what goods count as “made in Britain”.

The UK persuaded Brussels that EU materials and processing should to be counted as British input when the completed products are exported into the European market.

The agreement provides for the uprating of the UK state pension paid to pensioners who retire to the EU, the Government said.

A product would therefore only attract tariffs under the agreement if more than 40% of its pre-finished value was either not of British origin or from a non-EU country such as Japan.

The UK failed to secure diagonal accumulation, which would include parts from countries such as Japan and Turkey, with whom the UK and the EU have a trade agreement, to be counted as British input.


how much of a Nissan and Honda car made in the UK is Japanese-made components?

Edit
Answer - not that much! Nissan tried to get Japanese suppliers to set up in the NE, but most components are UK or EU made so this would make it easier for Nissan to keep going in Sunderland.

"Nissan has tried to increase the proportion of locally made parts to 40% and even to 80%, to avoid tariffs and delays in the supply chain after Brexit, supported by a British government policy to reach 50%. It has encouraged suppliers to set up in a new industrial park in the North East in order to do so, but our data does not show any move by Japanese suppliers to increase their UK presence."

 
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"The agreement provides for the uprating of the UK state pension paid to pensioners who retire to the EU, the Government said."

Now that is smoke and mirrors. If you take your state pension abroad it is only increased if you live in a country where the UK has a reciprocal agreement on benefits - but that's a UK policy decision (to save money). So the government seems to be implying this is a matter agreed with the EU whereas they could have continued to uprate pensions without an agreement. (I can't recall much debate about No Deal meaning Brit pensioners living in the EU might lose their annual pension increase.)
 
Our cat (sadly no longer with us) completely disappeared for five days a while back, then just rocked up out of the blue like nothing had happened. Hopefully yours will be back before you know it.

Sorry, just realised we’re veering way off topic here. Anyway, back to Brexit...
After several days of worrying, the little man has arrived this morning at the door, shaken up and noticeably skinnier!

Thank the Lord and what a Christmas present.

Anyway... back to Brexit...
 
After several days of worrying, the little man has arrived this morning at the door, shaken up and noticeably skinnier!

Thank the Lord and what a Christmas present.

Anyway... back to Brexit...
Probably on hunger strike until we got an agreement. It worked.
 
I think that is probably accurate, both sides have saved face

I struggle with that too. From a purely Mancunian perspective, students play a huge part in the economy of our City. Students though as I understand it where part of the immigration figures and they should never have been classed as immigrants.

It is a game to him, i don't think this has enhanced his reputation beyond his fan boys and I think a lot more will see it as political showmanship

True, lets hope the country can pull together, the whole episode has been very damaging to the nations reputation and it is has caused unprecedented splits. acrimony and yes hatred. I put a lot of that squarely at the feet of Farage and I hope one of the real benefits of leaving is that he is consigned to the rubbish dump of history and is never seen again. We are a decent country with decent people and hopefully now this is over all the propagandising that has been associated with like the ridiculous culture wars and the constant need to lie will stop and we can get on with life again in a normal country where people actually like each other again.
You refer to Farage being consigned to the rubbish dump of history.
But his legacy of turning the Conservative party into UKIP will last a generation.
 
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