Another new Brexit thread

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Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Indeed, but as the SNP would mobilise anything they can to support their single issue agenda anyway, this isn't 'normal' as they are a party of protest rather than governance. The fact is they are about to vote against the EU (technically) risking a no deal rather than the deal the EU want, while at the sane time claiming to be pro EU. Their independent rejoiner ambition is a non-starter economically, as well as because the EU don't want them in terms of cost, and also because admitting an independent Scotland opens the door to the EU recognising regional devolution in Spain. That won't happen as Madrid is (just about) a net contributor to the EU, and one of the more disturbingly federalist things the EU did in recent years was send EU personel to assist Spanish police in brutally putting the basque people back in their box. In short, Scotland was a useful lever as was the Irish situation to the EU while they were negotiating - now they have an agreement they can live with, they don't care about Scotland or the GFA all of a sudden.
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So many beliefs in there being presented as facts.

The one thing I agree with is the SNP have made a mistake in voting against this deal (if they do). As you correctly state, the choice is this deal or no deal and the correct answer based on what is best for the people of Scotland is this deal. Now some of our rednecks may applaud this 'protest' voting. I do not. I want a government that is building credibility as competent to organise and deliver an independent Scotland. Not one that only wants to appeal to the lowest common denominator and show it cannot put whats best for the country over unintelligent posturing.
 
GH64 said:
You're right on the numbers, provided the sales to England / NI / Wales from Scotland aren't counted as exports from Scotland. Which would be the Scottish Nationalist view.

The reason we can't export export them is apparently fears of divergence on agricultural standards between UK / EU. If Scotland left the UK, it is hard to imaging that there wouldn't be agricultural alignment going forward, or else you are going to need a hard UK / Scotland border. Northern Ireland is still aligned with Ireland for agriculture.(Scotland can't export seed potatoes to NI either now.)

Exports to the EU from Scotland are currently 20,000 tonnes pa, and exports to Egypt are 30-40,000 tonnes pa. The EU isn't always that important as a market. Its politics. Partial information to make a point is king.

And bizarrely we are are still allowing imports of seed potatoes to the UK from the EU for a year. Why? God knows. But if we just buy the Scottish ones instead, it solves the problem, and a load of CO2 emissions too.
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You had me at "you're right on the numbers".

So mcfc1632's "balanced" post was full of crap.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Yes, and show themselves for what they really are. It was never about 'a deal' or 'taking no deal off the table' as they claimed. They were banking on no deal to further their own petty agendas and it's backfired.
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The article from The Scotsman, posted by @mcfc1632 says exactly that,
about the SNP's intentions. After screaming about the dangers of no deal for
5 years. all of a sudden, they're going to vote to do exactly that. Which means,
they were not interested in trade, or jobs and people, just hoping for a no deal, so their independence movement could then rail against it, garnering support.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
So if the Hitler supporting SNP vote against this deal, what deal are they in favour of?

As I see it the nationalists are as gutted as so many on here that the deal we were told for 4.5 years was simply impossible has been negotiated.

My own personal disappointment and only gripe with the deal is that I cannot see anywhere in it for providing us with a third world war which I was very much looking forward to after being promised it by Cameron and Osborne and many others on the remain side of the debate.

And little Nichola can complain as much as she wants. The Scottish people are not stupid. They know full well that independence would mean the cutting off of the English taxpayer funded teat they've been suckling on for so long.

The union will be just fine thank you.
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Not whilst there are folks like you posting stuff like that it wont.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
So if the Hitler supporting SNP vote against this deal, what deal are they in favour of?

As I see it the nationalists are as gutted as so many on here that the deal we were told for 4.5 years was simply impossible has been negotiated.

My own personal disappointment and only gripe with the deal is that I cannot see anywhere in it for providing us with a third world war which I was very much looking forward to after being promised it by Cameron and Osborne and many others on the remain side of the debate.

And little Nichola can complain as much as she wants. The Scottish people are not stupid. They know full well that independence would mean the cutting off of the English taxpayer funded teat they've been suckling on for so long.

The union will be just fine thank you.
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I have said for years that - should there be a genuine Brexit and a number of years before the next Indyref vote (I believe that there should be one - before 2030) - then there is little chance of a YES outcome

The SNP really needed a No-Deal outcome to continue the progress they have made - their support will now, IMO, start to reduce over the next decade.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I have said for years that - should there be a genuine Brexit and a number of years before the next Indyref vote (I believe that there should be one - before 2030) - then there is little chance of a YES outcome

The SNP really needed a No-Deal outcome to continue the progress they have made - their support will now, IMO, start to reduce over the next decade.
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Well, that’s Scottish independence nailed on then.
 
GH64 said:
You're right on the numbers, provided the sales to England / NI / Wales from Scotland aren't counted as exports from Scotland. Which would be the Scottish Nationalist view.

The reason we can't export export them is apparently fears of divergence on agricultural standards between UK / EU. If Scotland left the UK, it is hard to imaging that there wouldn't be agricultural alignment going forward, or else you are going to need a hard UK / Scotland border. Northern Ireland is still aligned with Ireland for agriculture.(Scotland can't export seed potatoes to NI either now.)

Exports to the EU from Scotland are currently 20,000 tonnes pa, and exports to Egypt are 30-40,000 tonnes pa. The EU isn't always that important as a market. Its politics. Partial information to make a point is king.

And bizarrely we are are still allowing imports of seed potatoes to the UK from the EU for a year. Why? God knows. But if we just buy the Scottish ones instead, it solves the problem, and a load of CO2 emissions too.
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The truth can be sooo inconvenient.

Now there is a genuine Brexit outcome - a future independent Scotland can be responsible for the border requirements required to satisfy the EU.

I say let them decide on their future - I am sure that their answer will be unequivocal
 
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