Another new Brexit thread

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hgblue said:
If I believed that taking 27 disparate nations with their own culture, history, language and political outlooks, and plonking then together in a political and economic union, was a recipe for success I wouldn’t have voted for Brexit would I? Expecting countries like Greece and Italy to have the same economic and political needs as countries like Germany and France is a spectacularly stupid idea and is doomed to fail. I suspect that far from preventing nationalism this approach will promote it and this is what we are going to see over the next few years. Unfortunately the proponents of the EU are too arrogant to recognise the error of their ways and a great deal of damage may well occur before the penny drops. However, we are out so I can watch events unfold with a certain amount of neutrality.
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Remember the XXL popcorn bucket

You will need it when the debt-mutualisation issue kicks off - they have no other option now than to enforce integration.
 
BobKowalski said:
UVL talking about China. Interesting to see how this pans out and how it fits in with the Biden Administration‘s strategy on China.

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That would depend whether concentration camps and slave labour for minorities are allowable under the LPF provision.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Whether you two bother of not - is of course up to you.

Just pointing out though that if you bring up the potato famine - it will not be the first (or even second) time that a Remain supporter has ;-)
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It depends what the context of it being raised. If it were in a discussion about Irish/Anglo relations then maybe it was valid whoever raised it. I see you still persist in being divisive.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Where are you getting this assumption from?
And proceed with what? Leaving? we already have. The next step is negotiating a trade deal.

If we don't proceed, we won't have a trade deal with the EU going forward. If we don't proceed we won't have a deal. We're not 'leaving with a deal', we've already left the EU.

Is that what you want?
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Well what I want is probably not possible now at this stage, ie remain. If you are asking me do I want no deal or this deal then the answer is this deal.

However if there was an option between this deal and remain I know the majority would choose to remain because you have to be an idiot if you think we’ll be better off under these new terms.
 
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bugsyblue said:
Here’s something I still can’t get my head around. If a good amount of leavers feel this deal will leave us worse off and all remainers (as they’ve stated from the beginning) feel this deal will leave us worse off... why the fuck are we still proceeding?
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Because some of us and thankfully the government also are looking to the future and not just the past
 
mcfc1632 said:
Because some of us and thankfully the government also are looking to the future and not just the past
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By that I assume you mean you think we’ll be better off in the future than we we would under the EU? I hope you are right mate. Certainly won’t be the case in the short term.
 
blueparrot said:
Freedom and sovreignty are worth more to them than jobs and a conveniences in real life. Any casualties in business are a price worth paying for that illusion of control over our laws and borders.
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But do they actually think that? I assumed they said that shit to save face?
 
hgblue said:
That would depend whether concentration camps and slave labour for minorities are allowable under the LPF provision.
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That is the crucial issue, the French have already said they have to go and there is agreement in principle I believe, but is it worth the paper it is written on? How can this be monitored or enforced? Many questions on this.

The Biden Admin opposes this move, it will have its own China strategy, but if the EU and US are divided on strategy, then China will be the beneficiary.

Apparently, Macron and Merkel sat in on these discussions, wasn’t just left to the EU. Too important for them to sit on the sidelines.
 
bugsyblue said:
Well what I want is probably not possible now at this stage, ie remain. If you are asking me do I want no deal or this deal then the answer is this deal.

However if there was an option between this deal and remain I know the majority would choose to remain because you have to be an idiot if you think we’ll be better off under these new terms.
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Correct, the UK cannot remain in the EU.

Nobody can choose remain anymore, it is over. Gone. Finito. The only step for you would be to rejoin, but rejoining doesn't look anything like remaining. No vetos anymore, adoption of the Euro, joining the Eurozone; all elements for new joining members of the EU.

This deal gives the majority of leavers, neutrals and accepting remainers exactly the sort of compromise we all sought; ending the political association with the EU, keeping the economic and trade status.

Aside from a few extremists of both sides of the debate, most are welcoming of this deal, both us and the EU combined. Don't be one of 'those' types who are clinging on to 'remain'. It no longer exists.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Just wait for the the implications of the controls baked into the latest MFF and Covid recovery fund hit home. Just wait for the implications of the intended mutualisation of debt hit home.

You're going to need a bigger bucket of popcorn - but at least you can observe from the safety of an independent nation.
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And we're just printing money, and (though I never claim to understand high finance) we borrow money at low rates and it means we have to keep the bank rate low and (at the moment) the rate is not controlled by the government. The Bank of England is already doing smoke and mirrors stuff with the Treasury.
 
I'm beginning to feel like the prospect of a No Deal wasn't just used by the Government as a threat to the EU, but also to the UK electorate. In other words, accept ANY deal with as little time as possible to debate or it's a scenario that would really be the worst. It almost feels like we have been cowed into accepting.
 
bugsyblue said:
By that I assume you mean you think we’ll be better off in the future than we we would under the EU? I hope you are right mate. Certainly won’t be the case in the short term.
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If you reword that to - that we will certainly be 'net' better off in the future than we would be - in the future - if we had Remained or been retained as a vassal state - then you would be correct
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Correct, the UK cannot remain in the EU.

Nobody can choose remain anymore, it is over. Gone. Finito. The only step for you would be to rejoin, but rejoining doesn't look anything like remaining. No vetos anymore, adoption of the Euro, joining the Eurozone; all elements for new joining members of the EU.

This deal gives the majority of leavers, neutrals and accepting remainers exactly the sort of compromise we all sought; ending the political association with the EU, keeping the economic and trade status.

Aside from a few extremists of both sides of the debate, most are welcoming of this deal, both us and the EU combined. Don't be one of 'those' types who are clinging on to 'remain'. It no longer exists.
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I’m not clinging on to it, I accept it’s a loss battle. I guess what I was looking for was some honesty. I mean now we know exactly what the terms are we can better evaluate our position and I just want to know if leavers on here still think we will be better off with what we have on the table or what we had when we were a member of the EU?
 
bugsyblue said:
Here’s something I still can’t get my head around. If a good amount of leavers feel this deal will leave us worse off and all remainers (as they’ve stated from the beginning) feel this deal will leave us worse off... why the fuck are we still proceeding?
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For that we turn to IDS who thinks the "status quo" is No Deal rather than what we've had for 47 years.

Democracy, sovereignty, borders, anything but pragmatism.
 
bugsyblue said:
But do they actually think that? I assumed they said that shit to save face?
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No, at least not to a fanatical intent like some have tried to portray.

But they needed a villain and leavers were it. Rather than attempt to understand our position, they invented one and ran with it.
 
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