Arda Guler

FromPollockToSilva said:
A bit overly simplistic. He went through the German education system, was brought up with German friends, teachers, coaches, teammates etc. Very different to being brought up in Turkey
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Simplistic?

Ah, sorry for being as you put it “overly simplistic”, by putting forward the thought that being Turkish doesn’t mean that a footballer’s doomed to never be good enough for top flight footie in England.

Having considered your cutting and revealing remarks about my use of Gundogan as an example.
I must say that I’m gobsmacked that in your “not so simple” world, having a Turkish education, Turkish friends, Turkish teachers etc. means that a footballer can’t be good enough to play in the Premier League but a German passport and education can wash away the debilitating Turkishness of said Turkish bloke who was raised in a Turkish family, speaking Turkish and being culturally Turkish etc. and maybe get said redeemed Turk a stint in the PL.

Haha I’ve sussed you pal, you’re Nigel Farage doing your favourite Alf Garnett impersonation aren’t you?

Anyhow, your best efforts are wasted on me pal, I’m too much of a snowflake and what have you.

PS. You might like to note that many of the worlds greatest ever players were raised in abject poverty, in poor countries and with scant education . . . Oh and their friends, teachers, teammates, coaches etc. came from where they came from . .
Would Pele have got a game or two in Englands top flight, would Maradona (raised in a shanty town) have been able to hoof a bladder up the best mown English turf . . Well I recon so but, then again, what’s the opinion of a pinko liberal non-racist snowflake mean anyhow eh?
 
OccupiedPalestineBlues said:
Simplistic?

Ah, sorry for being as you put it “overly simplistic”, by putting forward the thought that being Turkish doesn’t mean that a footballer’s doomed to never be good enough for top flight footie in England.

Having considered your cutting and revealing remarks about my use of Gundogan as an example.
I must say that I’m gobsmacked that in your “not so simple” world, having a Turkish education, Turkish friends, Turkish teachers etc. means that a footballer can’t be good enough to play in the Premier League but a German passport and education can wash away the debilitating Turkishness of said Turkish bloke who was raised in a Turkish family, speaking Turkish and being culturally Turkish etc. and maybe get said redeemed Turk a stint in the PL.

Haha I’ve sussed you pal, you’re Nigel Farage doing your favourite Alf Garnett impersonation aren’t you?

Anyhow, your best efforts are wasted on me pal, I’m too much of a snowflake and what have you.

PS. You might like to note that many of the worlds greatest ever players were raised in abject poverty, in poor countries and with scant education . . . Oh and their friends, teachers, teammates, coaches etc. came from where they came from . .
Would Pele have got a game or two in Englands top flight, would Maradona (raised in a shanty town) have been able to hoof a bladder up the best mown English turf . . Well I recon so but, then again, what’s the opinion of a pinko liberal non-racist snowflake mean anyhow eh?
Click to expand...
What on Earth are you talking about here? I was responding, quite specifically, to your assertion that Gündy is "Turkish with a German passport." He isn't, he's both German and Turkish. He chose to play for Germany. He grew up in Germany. It's an important part of who he is, which your comment minimized.

I'm British. My daughter was born and will be raised in America. She is both British and American. Her upbringing will be different (note - not worse, but different) than if she'd been raised in the UK. That was my point.

I didn't make any comments about Turkish players being adaptable to other countries. Or Turkish education being inferior. Or really anything that you've chosen to talk about above. I didn't call anyone a snowflake. I'm genuinely a bit bemused how much you've extrapolated from my comment. Are you OK?
 
FromPollockToSilva said:
What on Earth are you talking about here? I was responding, quite specifically, to your assertion that Gündy is "Turkish with a German passport." He isn't, he's both German and Turkish. He chose to play for Germany. He grew up in Germany. It's an important part of who he is, which your comment minimized.

I'm British. My daughter was born and will be raised in America. She is both British and American. Her upbringing will be different (note - not worse, but different) than if she'd been raised in the UK. That was my point.

I didn't make any comments about Turkish players being adaptable to other countries. Or Turkish education being inferior. Or really anything that you've chosen to talk about above. I didn't call anyone a snowflake. I'm genuinely a bit bemused how much you've extrapolated from my comment. Are you OK?
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Yeah mate.

Wooo . . . that spin made me a bit wobbly. Not good with sudden deviations at my age.

And here’s a question for you. Please take it as an attempt to help.

Do you think that it might be possible that the stuff that you sometimes write seems ok in your head but that you don’t truly have any concept as to how your words might impact on normal decent people who don’t automatically label people from nation A, B or C as being cursed to ultimately fail in their ambitions in their chosen sport because of the poverty of their education, their friends or their coaches etc?

I’m not having a pop at you, these forums are a free for all and we all have our perspectives eh?
But, I must respectively mention, that I really don’t know (my humble opinion) how you can write what you do when their are so many examples of players from the most impoverished backgrounds making it to the highest levels of the game.

Did you think about the examples I gave you?
Particularly the Maradona example maybe?
He wasn’t redeemed from his nationality by being raised in Germany, he was raised in dire poverty in a shanty town in South America but became one of the most revered footballers ever known. Could he not have made the grade in England due to the low calibre of his family, friends, coaches etc?
Or, if he’d been raised in a modern advanced country like Turkey would he have failed miserably due to having Turkish friends, teachers, coaches etc?

Have you ever considered that field sports are what they are because they’re the closest we have to meritocracy, where anyone from any background can succeed on the merit of their talent?

Oh, and yes as you asked, thank you, I’m fine. So fine that I’ll put you on ignore to cull your drama.

*** For anyone sadly drawn into this issue; Please roll back to my initial post, the received response to that and the posts thereafter, thanks, as the responders posts seem to not be fully cognisant of their predecessors
 
OccupiedPalestineBlues said:
Yeah mate.

Wooo . . . that spin made me a bit wobbly. Not good with sudden deviations at my age.

And here’s a question for you. Please take it as an attempt to help.

Do you think that it might be possible that the stuff that you sometimes write seems ok in your head but that you don’t truly have any concept as to how your words might impact on normal decent people who don’t automatically label people from nation A, B or C as being cursed to ultimately fail in their ambitions in their chosen sport because of the poverty of their education, their friends or their coaches etc?

I’m not having a pop at you, these forums are a free for all and we all have our perspectives eh?
But, I must respectively mention, that I really don’t know (my humble opinion) how you can write what you do when their are so many examples of players from the most impoverished backgrounds making it to the highest levels of the game.

Did you think about the examples I gave you?
Particularly the Maradona example maybe?
He wasn’t redeemed from his nationality by being raised in Germany, he was raised in dire poverty in a shanty town in South America but became one of the most revered footballers ever known. Could he not have made the grade in England due to the low calibre of his family, friends, coaches etc?
Or, if he’d been raised in a modern advanced country like Turkey would he have failed miserably due to having Turkish friends, teachers, coaches etc?

Have you ever considered that field sports are what they are because they’re the closest we have to meritocracy, where anyone from any background can succeed on the merit of their talent?

Oh, and yes as you asked, thank you, I’m fine. So fine that I’ll put you on ignore to cull your drama.

*** For anyone sadly drawn into this issue; Please roll back to my initial post, the received response to that and the posts thereafter, thanks, as the responders posts seem to not be fully cognisant of their predecessors
Click to expand...
I genuinely haven’t posted anything along those lines at all though. Like, at all. I’m not sure which poster you think you’re arguing with but I’m really confused

I’m not the poster who said Turkish players couldn’t settle elsewhere. I just took issue with your minimizing of Ilkay being German, which he is. In addition to being Turkish.

Please stop trying to pick a fight with me on something I didn’t say and don’t believe. It’s weird. The only point I called you out on was the one above. I don’t care about this larger narrative you seem deeply aggravated by. I didn’t engage with it. Thank you
 
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