Are we really "the best team in the world" right now?

01cravend said:
Bayern have 6 trophies in the last year, we have 1. They are still in the champions league and are top of their league too, what makes us better than them?...Because they've lost 4 and we've only lost 3 this season?...Save this talk for the end of the season.
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If your measure is trophies then I don’t think anyone would argue with that but there is a reason that the bookmakers make us favourites for every competition we are still in. They aren’t interested in the past or what might happen in the future they estimate who would win if two teams met right now. That’s all the opposing Managers are talking about but of course it means nothing to the fans other than a nice compliment and I don’t expect City fans to go around saying it even if we win the CL...not really our thing.
 
The new measures state that the current 2020 financial year will not be assessed at all under FFP procedures, and will instead be rolled up into 2021, and the two years assessed together as a single financial period.18 Jun 2020
 
Don't know about '..best team in the world right now'.We should aim to be 'the best team in the world' by the end of the season.
 
Cobwebcat said:
From a performance point of view the CL is just a high standard knock out cup and doesn’t prove much... for instance are the runners up the second best team? Are the last 16 the top 16 in the World? In what order? ClubElo once calculated that the best team only won the CL 55% of the time and often didn’t win their own domestic league in the same season.

From a historical point of view, which is what the vast majority of people care about, you are entirely correct.

Pep often refers to the above saying he knows that he will be judged by others on if he wins the CL but it’s not how he judges himself knowing that one bit of bad luck and you are out.

If not winning the CL gives the press and opposition fans something to shout about then so be it. I used to do the same when United never won it!
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I actually mis-wrote my post. It meant to say 'Bayern are still the only *other* team that can be considered best in the world, meaning City are currently either #1 or #2.

Yeah personally speaking, I could never muster anything more than mild indifference to whether Chelsea were at any point considered the best in the world. I think we probably were between 05 and 07 but other than domestic domination, we have no CL to show for it, so that team won't talked about in the same manner people talk about the AC Milan team of that era even though I think we were better than them. If City don't win the CL during this period of domestic domination, then you'll still get your props as a domestic juggernaut but still not looked at in the same vein as Real Madrid 2015-2019, current Bayern, Barca 2008-2014 etc.

You never know when you'll win that CL though, that's the beauty of it being a cup competition. We spent about 8 years coming reaaallllyy close when all our big players were in their prime. We finally won it when they were all old and over the hill, Lampard was 34, Drogba 33, Ashley Cole 32 etc.
 
We must win the chumps league to be considered in that top 1 bracket. It's as simple as that.
I don't agree with this metric, but where else can you play a competitive game against the other best teams in Europe? and then the world?
Whether we are best or not isn't an issue to me, really. I can't say it is something that will change my opinion of the club, nor will it change many 'outsiders' negative opinion of the club.
Things will just remain the same, apart from having 'big ears' in the trophy cabinet.
Best team in the world? To us... ALWAYS!!!
 
Top 2, hard to say one is definitely better than the other given they're in different leagues. Doesn't mean much though, best team generally wins the league but the best team rarely wins cup competitions
 
shevtheblue said:
Saying best team in the world feels distinctly Scouse to me. I feel as if we have always been one of the best teams in the world over the last 3 seasons, at least.
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Agree, liverpool fans have a pathological, almost psychotic level of neediness which ends up with them not only declaring their team ‘der best in der werld’ but also each of their individual players in each of their individual positions.
This cringeworthy need for external validation feeds their inherent cognitive dissonance (or, perhaps, bare faced hypocrisy) in boasting that they are both European royalty/a global football superpower while at the same time being plucky underdogs and outsiders fighting a system which is set up against them.
This is how you end up with “Scouse not English” exceptionalism. It’s how the Anfield Wrap is able to romanticise and monetise delusional entitlement by rinsing plastics with subscriptions to their hilariously overwrought Kool-Aid content. Its how Tony fucking Evans can argue with a straight face that Steve Nicol was better than Paolo Maldini.
Luckily, we are better than that. We have a grounding in reality borne out of staying loyal through decades of often grim underachievement. So lets just see where we are in May, count the medals at the end of the season and leave the blowing of smoke up collective arseholes to those who clearly depend on it to validate their lives.
 
Vialli98 said:
I actually mis-wrote my post. It meant to say 'Bayern are still the only *other* team that can be considered best in the world, meaning City are currently either #1 or #2.

Yeah personally speaking, I could never muster anything more than mild indifference to whether Chelsea were at any point considered the best in the world. I think we probably were between 05 and 07 but other than domestic domination, we have no CL to show for it, so that team won't talked about in the same manner people talk about the AC Milan team of that era even though I think we were better than them. If City don't win the CL during this period of domestic domination, then you'll still get your props as a domestic juggernaut but still not looked at in the same vein as Real Madrid 2015-2019, current Bayern, Barca 2008-2014 etc.

You never know when you'll win that CL though, that's the beauty of it being a cup competition. We spent about 8 years coming reaaallllyy close when all our big players were in their prime. We finally won it when they were all old and over the hill, Lampard was 34, Drogba 33, Ashley Cole 32 etc.
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Chelsea are a perfect example. When you won the CL you were rated at only 8th best. However your 2008 side was 1st. Have a look...

Football Club Elo Ratings

clubelo.com clubelo.com

538 rankings weren’t around then so clubelo were the best.

I bet your 2008 team would have beaten 2013
 
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01cravend said:
Bayern have 6 trophies in the last year, we have 1. They are still in the champions league and are top of their league too, what makes us better than them?...Because they've lost 4 and we've only lost 3 this season?...Save this talk for the end of the season.
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Can you make a distinction between best and most competitive?

When I see Bayern's team I would not even say they are the "best" team - but when I see how they work with struggles and how they are able to "comeback" right in time and work together in big moments that makes me really confident that they can rise for the big occasions. Like Saturday - they lost Davies through a red card and that triggered "the monster". You could say that was just Stuttgart who has a very good season but with a lot youngsters - but we have seen that times and times before against better opposition - this season especially when it seemed that the team needed to wake up first before they put 2 gears up. There were times in this season where they struggled - but that was after the Supercups (only a short holiday, one week preparation and then some matches in a very short period) and after returning from the club world cup when they additionally to all the stress missed Müller who is the one that plays the role of a drill master pushing the others to their limits.

If that "competitivity" would not be there I would say that City is a clear no. 1.

But you cannot predict the future outcome. If Bayern's players are physically fit and the most important players stay healthy there is big chances for them to win again. Now - mid/end of March the offense is in top form (Gnabry back into goal scoring, Sane arrived, there is still Coman who has an edge for decisive goals - and we do not need to talk about Lewy and Müller) - the midfield two, too - Pavard, Alaba and Davies seem to be out of the slump they have been in the first half of the season - and with Coman, Hernandez, Süle, Martinez and Musiala atleast some decent players to substitute in. And the balance - that depends a lot on the fitness of the players, too, in the system they play - is better again now after some weeks with less matches because of being out of the cup and more real training.

But there is a lot Ifs in that...
In the most aspects your team is no. 1. But question for the CL tournament is who rises better to the occasion.


Some things look easy - but they always look easy no matter against which opposition when the opponent loses the ball in occasions that he should not or does not expect, too. And it is "an art" to trigger that.
 
Maldeika said:
Can you make a distinction between best and most competitive?

When I see Bayern's team I would not even say they are the "best" team - but when I see how they work with struggles and how they are able to "comeback" right in time and work together in big moments that makes me really confident that they can rise for the big occasions. Like Saturday - they lost Davies through a red card and that triggered "the monster". You could say that was just Stuttgart who has a very good season but with a lot youngsters - but we have seen that times and times before against better opposition - this season especially when it seemed that the team needed to wake up first before they put 2 gears up. There were times in this season where they struggled - but that was after the Supercups (only a short holiday, one week preparation and then some matches in a very short period) and after returning from the club world cup when they additionally to all the stress missed Müller who is the one that plays the role of a drill master pushing the others to their limits.

If that "competitivity" would not be there I would say that City is a clear no. 1.

But you cannot predict the future outcome. If Bayern's players are physically fit and the most important players stay healthy there is big chances for them to win again. Now - mid/end of March the offense is in top form (Gnabry back into goal scoring, Sane arrived, there is still Coman who has an edge for decisive goals - and we do not need to talk about Lewy and Müller) - the midfield two, too - Pavard, Alaba and Davies seem to be out of the slump they have been in the first half of the season - and with Coman, Hernandez, Süle, Martinez and Musiala atleast some decent players to substitute in. And the balance - that depends a lot on the fitness of the players, too, in the system they play - is better again now after some weeks with less matches because of being out of the cup and more real training.

But there is a lot Ifs in that...
In the most aspects your team is no. 1. But question for the CL tournament is who rises better to the occasion.


Some things look easy - but they always look easy no matter against which opposition when the opponent loses the ball in occasions that he should not or does not expect, too. And it is "an art" to trigger that.
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Good points. Form on the day is important and experience of winning it invaluable. City often play below par in the knockout stages of the CL where they would normally win. We just need to win it the once and I think we will win it a few times. That first one is sooo difficult.
 
We have the best coach in world football
we play some of the most entertaining football in the world against arguably the best opposition
we have the 25th most expensive footballer in the world as our most expensive player
We are almost certainly champions of our own country this year

I would say we shit all over every football team in any country in every metric.

Some might argue the team that wins the European cup are the best in the world in todays game...I would counter that Buster Douglas wasn't the best boxer in the world when he beat Mike Tyson...unquestionably the best Pro fighter in the world at the time...if not ever
 
talkativesprout said:
We have the best coach in world football
we play some of the most entertaining football in the world against arguably the best opposition
we have the 25th most expensive footballer in the world as our most expensive player
We are almost certainly champions of our own country this year

I would say we shit all over every football team in any country in every metric.

Some might argue the team that wins the European cup are the best in the world in todays game...I would counter that Buster Douglas wasn't the best boxer in the world when he beat Mike Tyson...unquestionably the best Pro fighter in the world at the time...if not ever
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You do Buster douglas a great diservice there. He always had the tools and unlike an awful lot who entered the ring with Tyson he wasnt intimidated by him
Even if it was for one night only he produced a magnificent performance.
I say that as a huge tyson fan, we need to get over the line in this competition or at least go down all guns blazing trying to win it, something we have not managed thus far.
 
talkativesprout said:
We have the best coach in world football
we play some of the most entertaining football in the world against arguably the best opposition
we have the 25th most expensive footballer in the world as our most expensive player
We are almost certainly champions of our own country this year

I would say we shit all over every football team in any country in every metric.

Some might argue the team that wins the European cup are the best in the world in todays game...I would counter that Buster Douglas wasn't the best boxer in the world when he beat Mike Tyson...unquestionably the best Pro fighter in the world at the time...if not ever
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Didn’t Tyson say he had an STD at the time and was in some pain the night of the fight?
 
Cobwebcat said:
Didn’t Tyson say he had an STD at the time and was in some pain the night of the fight?
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He claimed that yes. He never carried the same auro of invincibility again.
Buster douglas put him away about right.
An iconic moment in heavyweight boxing, the fact he crawled off the floor to do it makes it all the more remarkable. a night i will never forget.

 
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