Attacks in Paris

Ducado said:
Shall we ban any belief then? Because I can tell millions upon millions were murdered by so called communists from Stalin to Phol Pots killing fields you are forgetting that human beings will do terrible things in the name of what they believe people have even been murdered for supporting the wrong football team
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Your on the money Ducado , even if the world consisted of nihilists without any appetite for destruction , human beings would still find a way to inflict pain , misery and or destruction on others.

You would have to find a way from stopping all thought from man to begin the path to cease this type of behaviour.

When they cannot find motivation for that they focus on doing likewise on flora and fauna.
 
Ducado said:
Shall we ban any belief then? Because I can tell millions upon millions were murdered by so called communists from Stalin to Phol Pots killing fields you are forgetting that human beings will do terrible things in the name of what they believe people have even been murdered for supporting the wrong football team
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That's not something that will happen as society is too soft to allow a banning of religion.

I agree with you though. The largest murder rates in the world come from the drug trade, it isn't religion based. Govts could do so much by legalising drugs to stop so many thousands of murders.

Humans are a horrible species who are doing more harm than good to this planet and each other.

But it doesn't mean that religion doesn't have a lot to answer for in their millennia out of date ideologies.
 
everythingchangesbutblue said:
Is that true? hopefully. Had visions of accomplacies being chased firing all over the place.
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There were reports of loud bangs, some reports have confirmed it was a fire cracker but I may not have seen other reports of incidents. Hope there isn't any further atrocities.
 
KippaxCitizen said:
But it is though. Like CofE, Carholicism, Methodist, the Puritans who killed women in Salem and the KKK are all Christians in their religion and ideologies; this ISIL group are Muslims under the religion Islam, they are just a different branch to the more peaceful ones.
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If you and others continue to see them as 'Muslims', you are giving them all the protection they need under the guise of 'political correctness' from those who feel Islam is being persecuted. Separate them from Islam and they are nothing more than a bunch of nutters who've misintepreted passages in an old book. Continue to use their example as being an example of Muslims everywhere and people will correlate the two, incorrectly, and some will even protest aggressive actions against IS in fear of giving justification to reprisals at home against moderate innocent Muslims by those unable to see the difference between the two ideologies.

By identifying them as what they are, Islamist murderers that have no connection or identity with Islam, moderate Muslims wouldn't defend them, liberals couldn't defend them, and nobody would bat an eyelid if their 'Islamic State' were eviscerated by the Air Force.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
What does this have to do with Islamism?


You see, this is what we need to be doing, so that it benefits both sides of the arguement, so that when people are demonising the actions of IS, busy see you next tuesday's cannot bleat about 'Islamophobia' because we're debating Islamism, unless people are upset about 'Islamismophobia'.

Naturally on the same issue, those who criticise Islam in an entirely different debate by citing the actions of IS as an example of Islam as a whole, need to have it pointed out that IS are Islamists, not Islamic, despite what they choose to call themselves. The debate about Islam and its influence, importance or relevance on non-Islamic societies is a debate for another day. IS is all our collective focus now, those murdering Islamist bastards.
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On that I agree , IS have to be taken down but it will require not just drones and bombs , but righting the wrongs above. We have to start blaming those responsible ISIS and stop blaming those who loosely share the same religion. We have to be as hard on our "friends" who fund them as we are on our enemies who oppose them. We have spent far more time attacking Iran and Syria than countries like Saudi who fund them. We need to cut off their recruitment in schools and prisons and we need to isolate them from the rest of Islam.

As for people calling for every Muslim to condemn them publicly how fucking insulting and ignorant can you get. I would find it deeply offensive if someone expected me to apologise for or publicly talk about the actions of an enemy of mine or someone who I deeply disagreed with just because I shared nationality, or skin colour or religion - why should I. I am responsible for my actions and mine alone. Muslims do come out and condemn these things all the bloody time but this is ignored as it doesn't suit the agendas of extremists in our society.

So as you say let's focus on the actual enemy and take them on, let's fight them true to our ideal not giving away the very things we should fight for .
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
If you and others continue to see them as 'Muslims', you are giving them all the protection they need under the guise of 'political correctness' from those who feel Islam is being persecuted. Separate them from Islam and they are nothing more than a bunch of nutters who've misintepreted passages in an old book. Continue to use their example as being an example of Muslims everywhere and people will correlate the two, incorrectly, and some will even protest aggressive actions against IS in fear of giving justification to reprisals at home against moderate innocent Muslims by those unable to see the difference between the two ideologies.

By identifying them as what they are, Islamist murderers that have no connection or identity with Islam, moderate Muslims wouldn't defend them, liberals couldn't defend them, and nobody would bat an eyelid if their 'Islamic State' were eviscerated by the Air Force.
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Liberals don't defend them they just hate the far right using this as an excuse to further their own hateful ideologue. Liberals are after all ISIS real enemy as it is liberal ideas they hate.
Other than that a great deal of sense in the post
 
Scottyboi said:
Find it funny how people think banning religion will suddenly stop mankind from being greedy power hungry violent beasts.
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Neither would legalising drugs, but the two would do a great deal to stop a great deal of murders in the world.

Humans will always be a power hungry species though. If we are a have-not we want what the haves have, or we want to fight them to stop exploiting us for what we have. Money, land, power.

I'm just watching the Kiwis doing the Haka in the rugby league, makes you think of the ethnic cleansing our own country's empire did in New Zealand. They say there are now no pure Maori people left. All in the name of exploitation of a country's resources.
 
what a bunch of cunts, people going to a football game, eating out and going to watch a group and to get killed by theses evil cunts RIP THOSE WHO HAVE DIED
 
Are we sure Jason Manford stopped posting on here? Reads like it's straight off of BM. Facebook deleted it.

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Mëtal Bikër said:
If you and others continue to see them as 'Muslims', you are giving them all the protection they need under the guise of 'political correctness' from those who feel Islam is being persecuted. Separate them from Islam and they are nothing more than a bunch of nutters who've misintepreted passages in an old book. Continue to use their example as being an example of Muslims everywhere and people will correlate the two, incorrectly, and some will even protest aggressive actions against IS in fear of giving justification to reprisals at home against moderate innocent Muslims by those unable to see the difference between the two ideologies.

By identifying them as what they are, Islamist murderers that have no connection or identity with Islam, moderate Muslims wouldn't defend them, liberals couldn't defend them, and nobody would bat an eyelid if their 'Islamic State' were eviscerated by the Air Force.
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Good post. I do agree with you.

The bit in blue is bang on.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
On that I agree , IS have to be taken down but it will require not just drones and bombs , but righting the wrongs above. We have to start blaming those responsible ISIS and stop blaming those who loosely share the same religion. We have to be as hard on our "friends" who fund them as we are on our enemies who oppose them. We have spent far more time attacking Iran and Syria than countries like Saudi who fund them. We need to cut off their recruitment in schools and prisons and we need to isolate them from the rest of Islam.

As for people calling for every Muslim to condemn them publicly how fucking insulting and ignorant can you get. I would find it deeply offensive if someone expected me to apologise for or publicly talk about the actions of an enemy of mine or someone who I deeply disagreed with just because I shared nationality, or skin colour or religion - why should I. I am responsible for my actions and mine alone. Muslims do come out and condemn these things all the bloody time but this is ignored as it doesn't suit the agendas of extremists in our society.

So as you say let's focus on the actual enemy and take them on, let's fight them true to our ideal not giving away the very things we should fight for .
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I think in some cases we've gone beyond that now. We hide behind our "we're morally superior" stance and they take advantage of it time and time again. They know we won't react with violence. A smaller analogy would be the school bully punching you in the face whilst teacher is watching, but you refuse to fight back. But then you notice the teacher does nothing to intervene, so the bully keeps punching. But, true to your morals, you steadfastly refuse to fight back because you believe that "all violence is wrong". Well in the end whose left with the mangled face? The bully certainly doesn't seem to lament his actions, if anything he's proud.

Our hand has been forced to react but it is ow we go about it that will be key, and I honestly believe that a unified effort by Muslim leaders and those in the "West", both catagorically defining these barbarians as having nothing to do with Islam, not identifiable with Islam and that both forces would join to eliminate the fuckers, leaves their whole "The West is targeting Islam! This is why we fight and why all Muslims should support us!" arguement hollow when you've got armed forces of Islamic nations siding with forces from non-Muslim nations. It gives a very different impression that Islam is being targeted when Muslims themselves are voluntarily joining in with the response, whatever that response may be.
 
KippaxCitizen said:
Neither would legalising drugs, but the two would do a great deal to stop a great deal of murders in the world.

Humans will always be a power hungry species though. If we are a have-not we want what the haves have, or we want to fight them to stop exploiting us for what we have. Money, land, power.

I'm just watching the Kiwis doing the Haka in the rugby league, makes you think of the ethnic cleansing our own country's empire did in New Zealand. They say there are now no pure Maori people left. All in the name of exploitation of a country's resources.
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Go and read your NZ history, the original Maori were wiped out by the Maori there now. The British did nowhere near in NZ what they did elsewhere as they met a formidable enemy and made peace. If you want to see British genocide and the wiping out of a people go to somewhere like Tasmania .
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Go and read your NZ history, the original Maori were wiped out by the Maori there now. The British did nowhere near in NZ what they did elsewhere as they met a formidable enemy and made peace. If you want to see British genocide and the wiping out of a people go to somewhere like Tasmania .
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Thanks, didn't realise that i certainly will read more
 
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