Attacks in Paris

The fact that someone might have come as a refugee is completely irrelevant and would only be of any real import if there were no home-grown terrorists, which there are.

There have always been refugees and migrants, legal and illegal. The same arguments being used today, were used over 100 years ago, when the Aliens Act was introduced to combat the wave of refugees from trouble in Russia.

Camps like Sangatte, near Calais, have been there for over 15 years. People smugglers have been operating for ages. People from war-torn countries that have no connection with ISIS or similar groups have been fleeing here for years. And once they're in the EU, they can move pretty freely. So blaming this on the current Syrian refugee crisis is nonsense. Terrorists need weapons and explosives and refugees aren't bringing those with them.
 
bluethrunthru said:
No - just seen on BBC news that 2 passports have been found one from Syria. It also says somebody using a passport with that name on it came through Greece in October. You really have to learn how an investigation works, You join the dots you don't jump big gaps assuming those dots you have jumped all join up. As yet somebody on that passport came through Greece in October. There is nothing to say the dead guy at the scene was that same guy nor that either the dead man or the guy coming through Greece were the same person nor have they given a name yet. Listen to what they say and take baby steps with the rest of the rational world rather than try and jump from start to finish in one leap.
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101 James Bond
You shouldn't have to do this, I thought they were already experts in detective work
 
With ISIS claiming responsibility for the Paris attacks, the investigation moved beyond France as Belgian authorities made a number of arrests there in the first publicized apprehensions following Friday night's bloodshed, a Belgian justice ministry spokeswoman told CNN on Saturday.

Meanwhile, at least one American is among the Paris death toll, now at 129 people, officials said. The U.S. victim was Nohemi Gonzalez, 23, of El Monte, California, a junior studying design in Paris for a semester while enrolled at California State University, Long Beach, the school said.

In Belgium, raids were conducted in the Brussels suburb of Molenbeek-Saint-Jean, justice ministry spokeswoman Sieghild Lacoere said. A car rented in Brussels was found near one of the sites of the Paris attacks, and "that's what triggered the raids," Lacoere told CNN.

In all, the raids took place in three homes in Molenbeek-Saint-Jean, a Western intelligence source told CNN.

At least one of the raids is connected to the Paris attacks, according to the source, who is in contact with French and Belgian intelligence services. The other raids are connected to individuals known to Belgium intelligence, the source said. Some of the Paris attackers are also known to Belgium intelligence, the source added.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Yes - its says PASSPORTS have been found. There is still no confirmation that the persons that those passports were issued to in those countries were the persons dead at the scene. Its how investigations work. Trade in facts only.
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I was only pointing out what was said, not whether it proved anything
 
squirtyflower said:
They you go again, misrepresenting the truth
They have said a Syrian passport has been found, none are reporting that they arrived through Greece on 5th October
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There you go again knowing fuck all
Mail online, Greeces deputy police chief Nikos Toskas ''we announce that the passport holder had passed from Leros on October 3rd where he was identified based on EU rules''
Who am i or you to argue with Mr Toskas
 
big blue balls said:
There you go again knowing fuck all
Mail online, Greeces deputy police chief Nikos Toskas ''we announce that the passport holder had passed from Leros on October 3rd where he was identified based on EU rules''
Who am i or you to argue with Mr Toskas
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You're the one who knows nothing
A passport was found that matches one that came through Greece, how hard is this for your one functioning brain cell
 
bluethrunthru said:
No - just seen on BBC news that 2 passports have been found one from Syria. It also says somebody using a passport with that name on it came through Greece in October. You really have to learn how an investigation works, You join the dots you don't jump big gaps assuming those dots you have jumped all join up. As yet somebody on that passport came through Greece in October. There is nothing to say the dead guy at the scene was that same guy nor that either the dead man or the guy coming through Greece were the same person nor have they given a name yet. Listen to what they say and take baby steps with the rest of the rational world rather than try and jump from start to finish in one leap.
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Just sat here and listened to the reporter say two came through Greece as refugees. Just repeating what the reporter said. Come back and let me know if they confirm it only being one or none.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Of course it's true that there will be evil in every group of people, but the fact there may be doesn't justify doing nothing. Is that liberals as in the enemy of ISIS those who support the world ISIS oppose?
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The point was a straightforward one if you allow immigration from certain parts of the world and I would also include Eastern Europe in this it will cause trouble, if people think this is a price worth paying then they should at least be honest about it, the previous threads we have had are full of posters who deflect this very point with tales of Syrian brain surgeons and Albanian culture inhancing our lives, they never ever admit the negatives, the racist nutters do the opposite

The debate for me shouldn't be economic or ideological, a government should protect its inhabitants
 
Ducado said:
No one said it was not, but as my Israeli friend once said, no one gets up in the morning and says what a great life and prospects I have I think I will go and blow myself up, you can not untangle the the issues
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Of course, but no one made a point that there aren't other issues into the melting pot which create this clusterfuck, only that we shouldn't ignore the significance of religion in the violence.

As Westerners we reflect upon ourselves as a matter of course, look at what we could do differently, what our government is responsible for.

It's about time we recognised our influence is limited. We're not responsible for all the world's ills.

There's an inherent arrogance to think that we are responsible for all the world's ills.

For a long time people in this country were of this belief that once you solved the Israel/Palestine issue, then the Middle East would be at peace and everything else would solve itself. This was clearly nonsense.

Some people hold reprehensible political and ideological views, we're not responsible for them.

Israel isn't responsible for all the hate and bloodshed in the Middle East. Neither is America or Western Europe.

I don't see Turks reflecting upon the wrongs of the Ottoman empire and flagging themselves about how they're responsible for all the wrongs in the Middle East.

It's only us. And it's arrogance. Self indulgence.

And all it serves to do is reinforce the persecution narrative of Islamists for example, it lends credence to their political views.

Instead of taking ownership for their brutality and violence. It's someone else's fault. And many people in the West inadvertently legitimise these views.

Tired of this train of thought. It's getting us nowhere.
 
big blue balls said:
There you go again knowing fuck all
Mail online, Greeces deputy police chief Nikos Toskas ''we announce that the passport holder had passed from Leros on October 3rd where he was identified based on EU rules''
Who am i or you to argue with Mr Toskas
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squirtyflower said:
You're the one who knows nothing
A passport was found that matches one that came through Greece, how hard is this for your one functioning brain cell
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You're wasting your time with this one.

Aptly named in my view. Big balls by name, big balls by nature.
 
hilts said:
The point was a straightforward one if you allow immigration from certain parts of the world and I would also include Eastern Europe in this it will cause trouble, if people think this is a price worth paying then they should at least be honest about it, the previous threads we have had are full of posters who deflect this very point with tales of Syrian brain surgeons and Albanian culture inhancing our lives, they never ever admit the negatives, the racist nutters do the opposite

The debate for me shouldn't be economic or ideological, a government should protect its inhabitants
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If you allow certain people to breed it will also cause trouble. So should a government protect its citizens by stopping people breeding that are likely to cause trouble?
 
Ducado said:
No one said it was not, but as my Israeli friend once said, no one gets up in the morning and says what a great life and prospects I have I think I will go and blow myself up, you can not untangle the the issues
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Wasn't Osama Bin Laden born into a rich family?
 
I just hope that there are a few on here who never have a job which requires an investigative role. The simple requirement to take in information and consider it then use it as a lead to the next bit of info if indeed it does that for you is just abandoned. Their inquisition goes

1/ attack in Paris
2/ must be muslim terrorists
3/ must be illegal immigrants
4/ must be coming in through Southern Europe
5/ Case closed
 
hilts said:
The point was a straightforward one if you allow immigration from certain parts of the world and I would also include Eastern Europe in this it will cause trouble, if people think this is a price worth paying then they should at least be honest about it, the previous threads we have had are full of posters who deflect this very point with tales of Syrian brain surgeons and Albanian culture inhancing our lives, they never ever admit the negatives, the racist nutters do the opposite

The debate for me shouldn't be economic or ideological, a government should protect its inhabitants
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How do you protect your inhabitants without economic factors and debate when everything is about economics?

I see very few posts like you say , the stereotype you make of liberals is a stereotype true of a few that is painted on to many because it's an argument you think you can win. Whereas the real thing the right want to do is attack liberal ideals of freedom, tolerance, empathy , equality etc but that is hard to justify when it is a shared goal with the enemy being discussed
 
Religion is the MAIN relevance in this thread or it should be. They are murdering people for religious ideals.

As has been said before, religion can do lots of good but it was introduced in a formal way as a method of controlling the great unwashed. How better to control a mass than to warn them of eternal damnation if they didn't bow down and worship (plus chuck a few quid in every week) this weeks God of choice?

Sure before organised religion there were Gods. Gods of thunder, of the sea, of rain, of alcohol, of anything you can thing of. And then...organise it, make lots of lovely money, do the odd bit for the poor and control the masses. Get the King or Government onside and it's coming at you from all sides. Rome saw this coming, sticking to it's 'old' Gods for years until sensing a massive change in the populous converted to Christianity. They needed a book and so Constantine the Great and a few others compiled one out of teachings and readings they had knocking about. Obviously, being nearly 300 years since a bloke was nailed to a cross for saying how nice everyone should be too each other (sorry DNA), the book became a great work of fiction. Over the years since it has been added to, re-written and made more relevant but still, underneath all of the stories about magical fish, Gourds and giant boats there still lives the original message...

Do unto others as you would be done by except if you don't support our version of a one true God in which case you will burn in hell after we have tortured, beheaded, buggered and generally gone to war against you for having a completely different view/ belief.

It is no surprise that in a more enlightened world, what with our internets and so called freedoms we can choose what we damn well want to choose. Most of us now don't go to church unless it's one of the big three (Birth, Death and Manacle). Most of us take his name in vain. On an hourly basis. Most of us wonder why such a land rich organisation has to beg and borrow to fix it's empty places of worship.

And yet still, after all this control, mass murder and dominance by men in frocks what one place do the great now washed masses go to in times of need? The men in frocks.

We are a weird lot, humans.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I just hope that there are a few on here who never have a job which requires an investigative role. The simple requirement to take in information and consider it then use it as a lead to the next bit of info if indeed it does that for you is just abandoned. Their inquisition goes

1/ attack in Paris
2/ must be muslim terrorists
3/ must be illegal immigrants
4/ must be coming in through Southern Europe
5/ Case closed
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You worked for the West Midlands police a couple of decades ago didn't you ;-)
 
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