Away fans / tourists in home sections

Corky said:
City will say this is the cross-subsidisation which keeps the other tickets prices down in their business model.

I don't agree with it but it is a reasonable defence. Until demand really drops off we will get fleeced. The FAC prices were good but Salford and PA got 55%, and if other packages are sold the GA price goes into the pool, not the full price.
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It doesn't.

It has nothing to do with keeping season tickets and match day ticket price rises down.

If that was true, which it isn't, no disrespect, there wouldn't be season ticket and match day ticket price rises season after season.

It's City farming out tickets to their official ticket touting partners to increase match day revenues.

Those PL tickets could easily be sold on the OS ticket page without the clubs official ticket touting resale partners selling those tickets instead.

Away fans in home ends, including hospitality, won't ever stop happening until City stop this official ticket touting partner shite.
 
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Tim of the Oak said:
I think the Bolton fan needs to show some evidence of getting tough with the touting sites and not hindering genuine Blues who help each other with the odd spare ticket.
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I know you mean well Tim, as do others, but the people who moan that tickets should go to the people with the points don't see any problem with mates helping mates out. Trouble is, when it's 500 mates doing that, it becomes a problem.

I've told the story before about going to an away game with a group, just before a CL away. This group had 10 tickets but were only using 4 themselves. The conversation was about who would want the other 6. No one cared if they had the points or even if they were season ticket holders. They bought the tickets via their F&F and that meant they got the points (when they got points for away games).

I was at another away and got talking to another well-known poster on here, who was there with his lad. I assumed he had season tickets but it transpired he didn't, and he regularly got his away tickets via a mate whose adult kids had season tickets but rarely went to away games. Again, that was in the days when points were given for away games. Same story for another well-known poster on here, whose kids worked weekends and therefore couldn't do Saturday/Sunday away (or even home) games. Yet they were in the top points bracket.

I know home tickets are different to away ones but you can't have it both ways.

I do agree however that even our "official travel & ticket partners" are a weak link in the chain. I doubt there's any effective control over who they sell to and we should stop it.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I know you mean well Tim, as do others, but the people who moan that tickets should go to the people with the points don't see any problem with mates helping mates out. Trouble is, when it's 500 mates doing that, it becomes a problem.

I've told the story before about going to an away game with a group, just before a CL away. This group had 10 tickets but were only using 4 themselves. The conversation was about who would want the other 6. No one cared if they had the points or even if they were season ticket holders. They bought the tickets via their F&F and that meant they got the points (when they got points for away games).

I was at another away and got talking to another well-known poster on here, who was there with his lad. I assumed he had season tickets but it transpired he didn't, and he regularly got his away tickets via a mate whose adult kids had season tickets but rarely went to away games. Again, that was in the days when points were given for away games. Same story for another well-known poster on here, whose kids worked weekends and therefore couldn't do Saturday/Sunday away (or even home) games. Yet they were in the top points bracket.

I know home tickets are different to away ones but you can't have it both ways.

I do agree however that even our "official travel & ticket partners" are a weak link in the chain. I doubt there's any effective control over who they sell to and we should stop it.
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I’m talking about the odd home tickets Colin and thanks for making the distinction. City introduced the ticket exchange for that purpose but were badly advised to allow unlimited ticket transfers that has supported season card hoarding.

On another point, I do wonder if City could sell all these extra hospitality and corporate tickets without the Face Value ticket pages though. Besides helping Blues with affordable tickets many of the members seem to treat friends and family to hospitality from City on special occasions. I think it’s a bit of a win win for City.

Turning to away tickets.!l As you probably know, I think the “integrity of the points system” mantra is misleading. Some Blues are always going to put in the extra effort to try to get tickets for high demand games. I’ve got nothing against that even though I only go to the away games that reach my points.

I don’t like people charging inflated prices for tickets and the risks touting brings, as opposed to networks of friends and family sharing the odd spare.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
I’m talking about the odd home tickets Colin and thanks for making the distinction. City introduced the ticket exchange for that purpose but were badly advised to allow unlimited ticket transfers that has supported season card hoarding.

On another point, I do wonder if City could sell all these extra hospitality and corporate tickets without the Face Value ticket pages though. Besides helping Blues with affordable tickets many of the members seem to treat friends and family to hospitality from City on special occasions. I think it’s a bit of a win win for City.

Turning to away tickets.!l As you probably know, I think the “integrity of the points system” mantra is misleading. Some Blues are always going to put in the extra effort to try to get tickets for high demand games. I’ve got nothing against that even though I only go to the away games that reach my points.

I don’t like people charging inflated prices for tickets and the risks touting brings, as opposed to networks of friends and family sharing the odd spare.
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I don't have a problem with a group of friends or family sharing the odd ticket. We've all done that. As long as it's not on a significant scale and doesn't deny people who would have been eligible for tickets.

You quote the Face Value Ticket pages but I have a problem with these. For one thing they're technically committing a criminal offence. For another, they have no more control over who the ticket is going to then the club does.

And finally, if I have a season ticket that costs me £760 (so £40 per game pro data) let's say the club is selling that seat for £60 on the open market. If I sell it to someone for £60 that buyer has paid 'face value' but I've made a £20 profit. To me, that's equivalent to touting.
 
Quick question regarding official touting partners, and I'd prefer knowledge rather than opinion/emotion to generate the answers:
Who benefits most from the agreement between City and the official touting partners? If it's City they will have to accept the partners being a bit lax with how they screen applications for tickets, but if it's the agencies then City can demand a higher level of screening and threaten to end the agreement.
The unofficial touting partners should be hammered by City, and all other Premier League clubs, possibly with the involvement of Mr Plod if can be shown they are selling tickets in home sections to away fans, and vice versa.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I don't have a problem with a group of friends or family sharing the odd ticket. We've all done that. As long as it's not on a significant scale and doesn't deny people who would have been eligible for tickets.

You quote the Face Value Ticket pages but I have a problem with these. For one thing they're technically committing a criminal offence. For another, they have no more control over who the ticket is going to then the club does.

And finally, if I have a season ticket that costs me £760 (so £40 per game pro data) let's say the club is selling that seat for £60 on the open market. If I sell it to someone for £60 that buyer has paid 'face value' but I've made a £20 profit. To me, that's equivalent to touting.
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That depends on your definitions of "touting" and "face value".
In theory a season ticket seat can't be sold on for an individual match and therefore does not have a "face value".
In the old days you'd pass your ticket book or card to a mate and agree a price but that was against club regulations, the ticket exchange has provided a route to get someone in the seat and the club sells at the same price as other available seats in that block. - Even our abacus-based IT systems can make it work with a minimum amount of human intervention.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I don't have a problem with a group of friends or family sharing the odd ticket. We've all done that. As long as it's not on a significant scale and doesn't deny people who would have been eligible for tickets.

You quote the Face Value Ticket pages but I have a problem with these. For one thing they're technically committing a criminal offence. For another, they have no more control over who the ticket is going to then the club does.

And finally, if I have a season ticket that costs me £760 (so £40 per game pro data) let's say the club is selling that seat for £60 on the open market. If I sell it to someone for £60 that buyer has paid 'face value' but I've made a £20 profit. To me, that's equivalent to touting.
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On the flip side, plenty of fans sell their tickets for the less attractive games at less than 1/19th of their season ticket cost so it's swings and roundabouts. That £20 profit on that one ticket might not even come close to making up the shortfall so IMO as long as it's not getting sold at higher than the club's own match day price for that seat then it's no more touting than the legalised touting practices the club are involved in, perhaps even less so.
 
Personally, I believe (and I'm willing to be shot down on this) that there would be some advantage to the club categorising the refunds that they offer season ticket holders through the exchange. For instance, you would receive more money back against teams like United, Liverpool, etc., where the club will always try to maximise match day prices, but less money would be returned against Fulham, Crystal Palace etc., allowing the club to lower match day prices against those kind of teams.

I think Arsenal have a similar policy to this, which results in their lower category matches having better prices than ours.
 
Beaker said:
Personally, I believe (and I'm willing to be shot down on this) that there would be some advantage to the club categorising the refunds that they offer season ticket holders through the exchange. For instance, you would receive more money back against teams like United, Liverpool, etc., where the club will always try to maximise match day prices, but less money would be returned against Fulham, Crystal Palace etc., allowing the club to lower match day prices against those kind of teams.

I think Arsenal have a similar policy to this, which results in their lower category matches having better prices than ours.
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If I can't attend a match (just ill health has prevented me in the past) I always offer it to another genuine City fan (at face value) first. Then if if I have no takers it goes on the ticket exchange. Then I have no problem with City maximising revenue on that ticket (the club needs it as long as PSR exists) as long as they ensure that ticket goes to a genuine City fan. One of the overseas fans who bought my seat for one game sent me a very nice thank you message wishing me well with my health via my pal who has the next seat. He was a passionate City fan from Iraq and coming to the Etihad was the highlight of his life. It was a nice touch.
 
El Gringo said:
Was in the swamp paddock whenw e draw 1-1, 91/92 i think. A few of has tickets in the mainstand and could see a pocket of blues in the Stretford paddock so we climbed over and joined them - never forgot Tony Cotton looking confused when we started the Englands No1 chant that it was coming from the rag end :))
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Stood with you, that many blues they cordoned us off and held us in at the end, brilliant night
 
Beaker said:
Personally, I believe (and I'm willing to be shot down on this) that there would be some advantage to the club categorising the refunds that they offer season ticket holders through the exchange. For instance, you would receive more money back against teams like United, Liverpool, etc., where the club will always try to maximise match day prices, but less money would be returned against Fulham, Crystal Palace etc., allowing the club to lower match day prices against those kind of teams.

I think Arsenal have a similar policy to this, which results in their lower category matches having better prices than ours.
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Great idea, but I suspect that the vast majority of tickets appearing on the Ticket Exchange will always be for the less attractive fixtures.

I've got a mate who bought a Value Gold seasoncard a few seasons ago and his first comment was "Now I can miss those 12:30 kick offs against crap teams"

He's also in the FA Cup scheme, but didn't attend v Salford or Plymouth. He's only in the scheme because it guarantees him a Wembley Ticket if we reach the Final
 
Beaker said:
Personally, I believe (and I'm willing to be shot down on this) that there would be some advantage to the club categorising the refunds that they offer season ticket holders through the exchange. For instance, you would receive more money back against teams like United, Liverpool, etc., where the club will always try to maximise match day prices, but less money would be returned against Fulham, Crystal Palace etc., allowing the club to lower match day prices against those kind of teams.

I think Arsenal have a similar policy to this, which results in their lower category matches having better prices than ours.
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That's essentially how flexi-gold works so can see them moving to this. The more attractive games Utd/Liverpool etc are almost three times the price of what the club deem to be the least (Southampton). I think it'll come.
 
Scaring Europe to Death said:
Great idea, but I suspect that the vast majority of tickets appearing on the Ticket Exchange will always be for the less attractive fixtures.

I've got a mate who bought a Value Gold seasoncard a few seasons ago and his first comment was "Now I can miss those 12:30 kick offs against crap teams"

He's also in the FA Cup scheme, but didn't attend v Salford or Plymouth. He's only in the scheme because it guarantees him a Wembley Ticket if we reach the Final
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The club don't want legacy fans with a connection that goes back generations, they reap what they sow.

The sheer volume of football on now is leaving some people cold, you can only milk an old Cow fro so long until the udders turn crispy and fall off :)
 
jrb said:
I hate to say it, but until somebody takes legal action giant the club, it won't ever stop. No doubt if that did happen, the club would either try to pacify the person with....., or get Pannick to represent the club in court once again.

If the club had spent as much time and effort on local and legacy City fans as they have done on hospitality and tourist fans over the last few years, the Etihad would still be full for matches like yesterday. Instead they have channeled all their energy and selling criteria towards hospitality and tourists chasing increased match day revenues.

The NSL2 expanded stand would have been closed yesterday, with not enough City fans to fill it. Or there would have been 10,000 empty seats around the ground, if it would have been open. That's the reality of the clubs current and long standing ticket selling policy.
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Take legal action on the club becasue some away fans got tickets in the home end? Wow.

How do you propose that a handful of 54k tickets aren't bought by or given to a fan of the away team?
 
True_Blue69 said:
Take legal action on the club becasue some away fans got tickets in the home end? Wow.

How do you propose that a handful of 54k tickets aren't bought by or given to a fan of the away team?
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No, because the club have allowed blocks of tourists to sit together whilst preventing City fans from doing the same. The club think we're all happy clappers and an incident is going to happen if the club don't get their shit together.
 
True_Blue69 said:
Take legal action on the club becasue some away fans got tickets in the home end? Wow.

How do you propose that a handful of 54k tickets aren't bought by or given to a fan of the away team?
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Fans overplay their hands with these clubs as the legacy fans have a role, but we are naive if are role isn’t filling up the rest of the seats after day trippers and people who will spend more.

Vinny K was one of us and an intelligent businessman as well. He once spoke about whether the atmosphere could result in better performances on the pitch, leading to more success and therefore revenue.

It’s an interesting angle, but shows the trade off with legacy fans.

If the club could have 60K, 1 visit fans a season all making a day of it.

They would, make no mistake.
 
mexico1970 said:
The club don't want legacy fans with a connection that goes back generations, they reap what they sow.

The sheer volume of football on now is leaving some people cold, you can only milk an old Cow fro so long until the udders turn crispy and fall off :)
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Not disagreeing but I'm struggling to lose this image of crispy udders.
 
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