Away fans / tourists in home sections

[jrb]

Valverde comes off, walks down the touch line, Real Madrid fans and tourists stand up filming him on their mobile phones.

Bar just after the 2 goals, Real Madrid's support has been shit.

I wonder why?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I think you very much want to push the narrative that it's City fans touting and selling on.

Wasn't it you that pushed the removal of loyalty points for away games due to the mythical problem of "points whoring"??

Re-reading some of the old CM threads and the FG one currently open, it appears you also had a hand in that creation too.

I hope you can see on reflection the problem you were trying to fix for the club (SC holders picking and choosing and leaving empty seats, empithad jibes etc.) was probably a better situation than what we have now.

The 14 game policy, another trojan horse for removing SCs. I can't find anything on here where you've taken credit for that one to be fair but you seem quite proud of the other two

I appreciate it's been bastardised and I've no doubt you thought it was a good idea but I hope you now see that the ticketing sub committee or whatever you called yourselves have played right into their hands.

Just back to the point on rows of seats, blocks etc. It's 100% the club, not blind faith, facts

I listed my ticket for Sunday, it was "sold" within 2 minutes (email confirming it was listed 00:56am, email it was sold at 00:58am) of being put up, and the person in my seat bought it from a ticket site. Is that what the exchange was for?? I think the club has a system that siphons them off to these agencies, no other explanation for it going that quickly at that time of night

I started to answer this post then it got lost somehow so apologies for ignoring you.

First of all it was the club who proposed the removal of ticket points for away games and, as a group, after seeing the evidence that something like 25-30% of away tickets were being sold on, we (all ten CM members) unanimously agreed to the proposal. As I said in another post on here, I've seen it with my own eyes with posters I know on here regularly buying tickets on family members' cards that they were passing on.

As for Flexi-Gold, no one wants empty seats where we can avoid it. You have to be fucking brainless, rot have a real agenda, to prefer empty seats to a full stadium. There's also evidence on this thread of people buying tickets and picking and choosing the games they attend. Again, unlike you, I've seen the figures the club provided for no-shows and was horrified by some of them.

We discussed the issue at length on numerous occasions and the club made some very poor proposals which we laughed out of the boardroom. I made a counter-proposal which was the concept of a season ticket where you had to opt-in, rather than opt out. Did it help the club generate revenue? Yes it did but it also helped people who knew they couldn't attend games, particularly midweek ones. It also gave more of an opportunity for other Blues to buy those seats that the club knew well in advance wouldn't be used.

The point was that no one would be ripped off but people who attended fewer than 15 games would pay a higher pro-rata cost the fewer games they turned up for. They were still free to pick and choose but their seat would be available for the games they chose not to attend. However Soriano and his money-obsessed minions decided to turn it into a money-making opportunity. I'm not taking the blame for that.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

I’d make it. If you miss two games and the seat isn’t filled you lose your season ticket.

That's a bit harsh on cricket umpires like me who might miss 2-3 home games when the seasons collide, but attend all the others including the less attractive cup games such as Watford in the Carabao Cup or even Plymouth last Saturday

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

You used to be able to get 18-21 tickets in the family stand. Don't know whether it's still a thing? I got pulled once (this is going back maybe 15 years ago) as it must have flashed up as a concession. Then when they looked at ticket on their machine they just let me in when they realised it was an 18-21.

Yeah, I'm just curious as to when a "Family" becomes too old for the Family Stand or whether that's even measured.

It must look a bit suspicious when your lad (who was 12 when the Family Stand first opened) is now sporting a Stonewall Jackson beard and supping five pints on the concourse.

 

[Edghill OG]

Yeah, I'm just curious as to when a "Family" becomes too old for the Family Stand or whether that's even measured.

It must look a bit suspicious when your lad (who was 12 when the Family Stand first opened) is now sporting a Stonewall Jackson beard and supping five pints on the concourse.

We're one big family mate. Haha.

I think it was more stringent once upon a time. I recall somebody took exception to my colourful language on one occasion whilst forgetting I was in the family stand. Probably as bad as anywhere else now. Don't think there's any criteria for being in there and if there is it isn't really enforced.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

I made it to Ipswich that day. Booked on the special train however all the lines were down so they put coaches on. Made it bang on ko for a 0-3 !!! Went back this season for the first time since

I was also on one of those coaches (there weren't many) and it was a long day at a time when an away win was never part of the script

I don't recall us even having a shot on goal.

 

[Danny Hoekman]

Yeah, I'm just curious as to when a "Family" becomes too old for the Family Stand or whether that's even measured.

It must look a bit suspicious when your lad (who was 12 when the Family Stand first opened) is now sporting a Stonewall Jackson beard and supping five pints on the concourse.

I assume that once your kids grow up, you are now just staying where you are. That's what has happened all around us.

 

[CoventryBlue]

I started to answer this post then it got lost somehow so apologies for ignoring you.

First of all it was the club who proposed the removal of ticket points for away games and, as a group, after seeing the evidence that something like 25-30% of away tickets were being sold on, we (all ten CM members) unanimously agreed to the proposal. As I said in another post on here, I've seen it with my own eyes with posters I know on here regularly buying tickets on family members' cards that they were passing on.

As for Flexi-Gold, no one wants empty seats where we can avoid it. You have to be fucking brainless, rot have a real agenda, to prefer empty seats to a full stadium. There's also evidence on this thread of people buying tickets and picking and choosing the games they attend. Again, unlike you, I've seen the figures the club provided for no-shows and was horrified by some of them.

We discussed the issue at length on numerous occasions and the club made some very poor proposals which we laughed out of the boardroom. I made a counter-proposal which was the concept of a season ticket where you had to opt-in, rather than opt out. Did it help the club generate revenue? Yes it did but it also helped people who knew they couldn't attend games, particularly midweek ones. It also gave more of an opportunity for other Blues to buy those seats that the club knew well in advance wouldn't be used.

The point was that no one would be ripped off but people who attended fewer than games would pay a higher pro-rata cost the fewer games they turned up for. They were still free to pick and choose but their seat would be available for the games they chose not to attend. However Soriano and his money-obsessed minions decided to turn it into a money-making opportunity. I'm not taking the blame for that.

Thanks for taking the time to respond

I'm skeptical what evidence the club had that showed 25-30% of away tickets were being sold on.

I assume you won't/can't share what that evidence was, but surely at least one of the ten of you at the time could have called this out and pushed back on the evidence itself.

That's 750-ish each game that they claim to have been able to track to other people (it was all paper tickets back then remember). I fail to see how they'd know this

Assuming they are telling the truth, if the evidence was there, why was no action taken against the 750 or so people moving tickets on?

And did the change in removing loyalty points reduce that % down? Did they share how effective it was??

Anecdotally, I'd say it's no easier now than it was back then to get away tickets. I do remember a slight lowering of points that games would sell, but once £30 limit came in, it was back to how it was

I maintain the "whores" were inconsequential, the majority of any selling on of tickets would be mates helping mates which happens today as it did then

 

[Stephen230]

Yeah, I'm just curious as to when a "Family" becomes too old for the Family Stand or whether that's even measured.

It must look a bit suspicious when your lad (who was 12 when the Family Stand first opened) is now sporting a Stonewall Jackson beard and supping five pints on the concourse.

I’m having doubts if I’ve imagined this now. But I have it in my head that just before lockdown, the club made a statement to the effect that they were going to reassess everyone with season tickets in Level 2 of The Family Stand and if they don’t meet the criteria, they’ll be told to move elsewhere. Although they didn’t explicitly say so, by failing to mention Level 1, the assumption was that it would be free from any restrictions officially. As it virtually is now, unofficially.

But then lockdown came and shortly after re-opening, plans for the new tier. So I guess it all got shoved on the back burner.

I imagine once details of the new stand are released, it will include info about what exactly will constitute the new Family Stand.

 

[Wilmslow Road]

Thanks for taking the time to respond

I'm skeptical what evidence the club had that showed 25-30% of away tickets were being sold on.

I assume you won't/can't share what that evidence was, but surely at least one of the ten of you at the time could have called this out and pushed back on the evidence itself.

That's 750-ish each game that they claim to have been able to track to other people (it was all paper tickets back then remember). I fail to see how they'd know this

Assuming they are telling the truth, if the evidence was there, why was no action taken against the 750 or so people moving tickets on?

And did the change in removing loyalty points reduce that % down? Did they share how effective it was??

Anecdotally, I'd say it's no easier now than it was back then to get away tickets. I do remember a slight lowering of points that games would sell, but once £30 limit came in, it was back to how it was

I maintain the "whores" were inconsequential, the majority of any selling on of tickets would be mates helping mates which happens today as it did the

I started to answer this post then it got lost somehow so apologies for ignoring you.

First of all it was the club who proposed the removal of ticket points for away games and, as a group, after seeing the evidence that something like 25-30% of away tickets were being sold on, we (all ten CM members) unanimously agreed to the proposal. As I said in another post on here, I've seen it with my own eyes with posters I know on here regularly buying tickets on family members' cards that they were passing on.

As for Flexi-Gold, no one wants empty seats where we can avoid it. You have to be fucking brainless, rot have a real agenda, to prefer empty seats to a full stadium. There's also evidence on this thread of people buying tickets and picking and choosing the games they attend. Again, unlike you, I've seen the figures the club provided for no-shows and was horrified by some of them.

We discussed the issue at length on numerous occasions and the club made some very poor proposals which we laughed out of the boardroom. I made a counter-proposal which was the concept of a season ticket where you had to opt-in, rather than opt out. Did it help the club generate revenue? Yes it did but it also helped people who knew they couldn't attend games, particularly midweek ones. It also gave more of an opportunity for other Blues to buy those seats that the club knew well in advance wouldn't be used.

The point was that no one would be ripped off but people who attended fewer than 15 games would pay a higher pro-rata cost the fewer games they turned up for. They were still free to pick and choose but their seat would be available for the games they chose not to attend. However Soriano and his money-obsessed minions decided to turn it into a money-making opportunity. I'm not taking the blame for that.

If there was indeed evidence that 25-30 % of away tickets were being sold on why was it not made public. Could it be that most of these were being sold by Corporate and Superbia Members not the Fans who had amassed points.

 

[franksinatra]

I’d make it. If you miss two games and the seat isn’t filled you lose your season ticket.

That would probably alienate about 60/70 percent of our people season ticket fanbase and probably result in many fans walking away.

The club might adopt it though as it would be a very successful way of removing legacy fans and lowering season ticket numbers

 

[Tim of the Oak]

That would probably alienate about 60/70 percent of our people season ticket fanbase and probably result in many fans walking away.

The club might adopt it though as it would be a very successful way of removing legacy fans and lowering season ticket numbers

I think it’s too harsh but it could deal with a lot of the plastics and season card hoarders.

 

[franksinatra]

I think it’s too harsh but it could deal with a lot of the plastics and season card hoarders.

I think this is a very simplistic solution to a complex issue.

There are so many valid reasons to not attend now, fixtures changes, kick off times etc and how exactly would the club police it?

Do we take season ticket books of our older season ticket holders who do not attend night matches in the middle of winter, shift workers unable to make night matches or responsible parents who don’t take their kids to night matches as the kids have school the following day?

Should fans also get punished if matches get moved to days they cannot attend or because or games being rearranged due to the impact of cup competitions?

And sickness? How does the club police fans who have to miss matches due to illness?. Sometimes we have two games at home (weds & sat) in the space of 4 days. You could literally lose your season ticket due to having flu once a year.

And if the clubs accepts illness as a valid reason how is this proven? Doctors note?

I’m sure the doctors surgery would appreciate the additional burden of city fans visiting to prove their illness to prevent losing their season ticket.

If the season ticket numbers did drop who would fill the void?

I don’t think we will get a massive uptake in other blues buying the tickets at 60/70 quid a pop and the club would alienate a massive part of their fanbase. Would pretty much destroy the fabric of the club.

To add to all that it would be a huge PR own goal for the club.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Thanks for taking the time to respond

I'm skeptical what evidence the club had that showed 25-30% of away tickets were being sold on.

I assume you won't/can't share what that evidence was, but surely at least one of the ten of you at the time could have called this out and pushed back on the evidence itself.

That's 750-ish each game that they claim to have been able to track to other people (it was all paper tickets back then remember). I fail to see how they'd know this

Assuming they are telling the truth, if the evidence was there, why was no action taken against the 750 or so people moving tickets on?

And did the change in removing loyalty points reduce that % down? Did they share how effective it was??

Anecdotally, I'd say it's no easier now than it was back then to get away tickets. I do remember a slight lowering of points that games would sell, but once £30 limit came in, it was back to how it was

I maintain the "whores" were inconsequential, the majority of any selling on of tickets would be mates helping mates which happens today as it did then

Why does it not surprise me that you're sceptical about evidence that doesn't suit your prejudices? As I've said, I saw it with my own eyes.

While it was difficult to compare like-with-like across seasons, it was clear that away tickets were going to lower points totals after points were stopped. And that became quite stark when people had to collect at CL games.

You can maintain whatever you want but I've seen the evidence, along with the other nine CM reps at the time, and we were suitably convinced there was a significant problem that we needed to do something about.

Believe what you want. I don't give a fuck.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Thanks for taking the time to respond

I'm skeptical what evidence the club had that showed 25-30% of away tickets were being sold on.

I assume you won't/can't share what that evidence was, but surely at least one of the ten of you at the time could have called this out and pushed back on the evidence itself.

That's 750-ish each game that they claim to have been able to track to other people (it was all paper tickets back then remember). I fail to see how they'd know this

Assuming they are telling the truth, if the evidence was there, why was no action taken against the 750 or so people moving tickets on?

And did the change in removing loyalty points reduce that % down? Did they share how effective it was??

Anecdotally, I'd say it's no easier now than it was back then to get away tickets. I do remember a slight lowering of points that games would sell, but once £30 limit came in, it was back to how it was

I maintain the "whores" were inconsequential, the majority of any selling on of tickets would be mates helping mates which happens today as it did then

Have to agree, how on earth in the days of paper tickets would the club know that up to 1k from a 3k allocation have not been used by the buyer.
But we have all been there on the day of an away when one of the group has fallen ill overnight or whose wife goes into early labour, work or family emergency occurs and there is a ticket going spare. One of the group will pick up the ticket and flog it for face value outside the ground, in a pub or as I have seen on a train on the way down. Is it better that the ticket is used by a blue that can help cheer on the side rather than going to waste. It wasn’t that long ago we would take half our allocations to London clubs or not sell out away ends. Notable boycotts of Wigan, Arsenal and Birmingham to name a few when they took the piss with prices. Plenty of times at Spurs and Chelsea we barely mustered 1,500and i am talking post 2000 if memory serves me right. Our 4-3 FA Cup comeback against Spurs, doubt there were even 1,500 there yet we took 9k on a Friday night last year. Points whores were largely few and far between and appears to be an urban myth. I am not saying there weren’t any just not that many. Biggest touts are not the fans.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I think this is a very simplistic solution to a complex issue.

There are so many valid reasons to not attend now, fixtures changes, kick off times etc and how exactly would the club police it?

Do we take season ticket books of our older season ticket holders who do not attend night matches in the middle of winter, shift workers unable to make night matches or responsible parents who don’t take their kids to night matches as the kids have school the following day?

Should fans also get punished if matches get moved to days they cannot attend or because or games being rearranged due to the impact of cup competitions?

And sickness? How does the club police fans who have to miss matches due to illness?. Sometimes we have two games at home (weds & sat) in the space of 4 days. You could literally lose your season ticket due to having flu once a year.

And if the clubs accepts illness as a valid reason how is this proven? Doctors note?

I’m sure the doctors surgery would appreciate the additional burden of city fans visiting to prove their illness to prevent losing their season ticket.

If the season ticket numbers did drop who would fill the void?

I don’t think we will get a massive uptake in other blues buying the tickets at 60/70 quid a pop and the club would alienate a massive part of their fanbase. Would pretty much destroy the fabric of the club.

To add to all that it would be a huge PR own goal for the club.

You just put your ticket on the exchange or sell or transfer it to friends and family

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Why does it not surprise me that you're sceptical about evidence that doesn't suit your prejudices? As I've said, I saw it with my own eyes.

While it was difficult to compare like-with-like across seasons, it was clear that away tickets were going to lower points totals after points were stopped. And that became quite stark when people had to collect at CL games.

You can maintain whatever you want but I've seen the evidence, along with the other nine CM reps at the time, and we were suitably convinced there was a significant problem that we needed to do something about.

Believe what you want. I don't give a fuck.

The odd thing is that there have been people on high points who used to be able to get tickets for every game who now struggle to qualify because the club keep siphoning off more tickets from the points pot. It will be very interesting to if the 60% we are promised happens for the derby. I doubt it will. I think most people on here including yourself just want to see more transparency from the club about ticket distribution for both home and away games.

 

[CoventryBlue]

Why does it not surprise me that you're sceptical about evidence that doesn't suit your prejudices? As I've said, I saw it with my own eyes.

While it was difficult to compare like-with-like across seasons, it was clear that away tickets were going to lower points totals after points were stopped. And that became quite stark when people had to collect at CL games.

You can maintain whatever you want but I've seen the evidence, along with the other nine CM reps at the time, and we were suitably convinced there was a significant problem that we needed to do something about.

Believe what you want. I don't give a fuck.

So much to unpick if you'll humour me some more

"I saw it with my own eyes" -

what? It's getting on 10 years since that decision, can't you offer some explanation now you're not in role or bound by an nda??

"Clear away tickets were going to lower points" -

agreed, until the £30 limit came in a season later and now it's as hard as it ever was

"quite stark when people had to collect at CL" -

so remove them for CL aways only. And if that proved so effective, why was it stopped?

"Seen the evidence along with the other nine" -

and not one of you thought to question the club why this evidence resulted in zero action being taken against 750 of us that were breaking T&Cs and possibly the law too??

I could see something like that figure coming from anecdotes like yours where out of a group of 10, 3 were passed on or the club actually did some digging on these reseller sites and found 7 of 20 were originally allocated to high pointers. All of which, inconsequential and not good enough evidence to scale up.

At best you and the others were duped, at worst, it was your own confirmation bias on an issue you had with supposed "whores"

There is NO WAY the club could have gathered and provided evidence of 750+ tickets being passed on. Even with digital tickets I doubt they've got the GDPR access to see what IMEI is used versus SC or what emails we send on for downloading. Paper tickets, not a prayer

You might not give a fuck, but lots of lads and lasses who are stuck on 20k (not me luckily, I'm usually good for all but Bournemouth, Brentford and United) are literally waiting for people to die to catch up

 

[CoventryBlue]

The odd thing is that there have been people on high points who used to be able to get tickets for every game who now struggle to qualify because the club keep siphoning off more tickets from the points pot. It will be very interesting to if the 60% we are promised happens for the derby. I doubt it will. I think most people on here including yourself just want to see more transparency from the club about ticket distribution for both home and away games.

That's also a big problem. Well said. Much like FG, club have trojan horsed something in to get what they really wanted and best of all, even got CM to sign off on it

 

[Alex - Not City Matters]

Minutes from our meeting with the Club in February now online.

https://www.mancity.com/meta/media/lafpfr0p/city-matters-full-group-meeting-3-of-5-minutes-thursday-20th-february-2025.pdf

Lots of interesting information in there, which I’m glad the Club have agreed to share.

Up to 550 tickets are provided to the eight official resale partners and offsite packages.