Birth Pangs

Ducado

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 Aug 2007
Messages
31,034
Location
where the tide never comes in
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City
My take (been a City fan all my life)

For far to long there has been a culture of defeat and accepting third best at the club, this has sank into the very bones of the club (as can be seen on City forums) if we are going to get to be the Club we want to see (winning things) the ghost of the past needs to be exorcised.

I beleive that Hughes (despite some of my misgivings) is the man to do the job, and it is going to be painful as he builds a team that he wants, we want it all and we want it now, I have waited for so long I am prepared to wait that bit longer, as this new club takes shape
 
Ducado said:
My take (been a City fan all my life)

For far to long there has been a culture of defeat and accepting third best at the club, this has sank into the very bones of the club (as can be seen on City forums) if we are going to get to be the Club we want to see (winning things) the ghost of the past needs to be exorcised.

I beleive that Hughes (despite some of my misgivings) is the man to do the job, and it is going to be painful as he builds a team that he wants, we want it all and we want it now, I have waited for so long I am prepared to wait that bit longer, as this new club takes shape
I agree with the general points you make but I just cannot see anything in Hughes's reign so far that gives me confidence that he can take us to the level we're aiming at.
 
well thats just lovely for you but i'm looking for a few early showings after the transfer window. A few glimmers of hope - yes it'll take time but i want something to get excited about.
 
Well, I have to disagree. I think in Hughes we are settling for someone less than the best. He spent three years managing a small, mediocre, English team to mid-table...and that's it. There's nothing else. There is absolutely nothing to recommend him that is not shared by veteran managers who really have been there, done that. The only reason he is managing City, is because he is managing City. When I read City fans who want to give him three years come hell or high water, the only thing I think is, "what, exactly, are they trying to prove?" It's all baseless, wild hope and platitudes about "stability", totally missing the point, as though quality is some luxury for other clubs.
 
lancs blue said:
Ducado said:
My take (been a City fan all my life)

For far to long there has been a culture of defeat and accepting third best at the club, this has sank into the very bones of the club (as can be seen on City forums) if we are going to get to be the Club we want to see (winning things) the ghost of the past needs to be exorcised.

I beleive that Hughes (despite some of my misgivings) is the man to do the job, and it is going to be painful as he builds a team that he wants, we want it all and we want it now, I have waited for so long I am prepared to wait that bit longer, as this new club takes shape
I agree with the general points you make but I just cannot see anything in Hughes's reign so far that gives me confidence that he can take us to the level we're aiming at.
West Ham 3-0
Sunderland 3-0
Pompey 6-0
Stoke 3-0
Arsenal 3-0
Schalke 2-0
Hull 5-1

See it now? 7 games there all at least 3 goals only conceded 1. All 7 can't be luck. Yes it doesn't happen often but you asked for something that gives confidence in Hughes' potential to be successful.

I agree with you Ducado. Hughes needs time.
 
Brucie Bonus said:
Well, I have to disagree. I think in Hughes we are settling for someone less than the best. He spent three years managing a small, mediocre, English team to mid-table...and that's it. There's nothing else. There is absolutely nothing to recommend him that is not shared by veteran managers who really have been there, done that. The only reason he is managing City, is because he is managing City. When I read City fans who want to give him three years come hell or high water, the only thing I think is, "what, exactly, are they trying to prove?" It's all baseless, wild hope and platitudes about "stability", totally missing the point, as though quality is some luxury for other clubs.

Not to mention that small club consistently finished above us during his tenure
 
List all the managers that have been there done that and most of if not all will have been sacked,classed as not good enough but then went onto to prove the doubters wrong, usually when given time.The thing that gets me EVERYONE in the game knows this.

Personally I don't want someone who if we had asked to come last august would have said fck off and lets not kid ourselves the managers that people keep saying we should get would NOT have come and would have said fck that.


I've thought about it and if hughes fecks up get in that arrogant twat from Inter,win us the title I'll call him god
 
So far those birth pangs have managed only to wretch out a steaming great turd.

I share your optimism though Ducado.
 
Took the Purple Nosed Tosser seven years to win owt. Hughes won't need that long, given the chance. It might be a troublesome confinement but what a bouncing blue-eyed baby we'll have who will grown into honourable adulthood. Not the overnight process.
 
Fair enough. Don't understand how someone who would not have been on the short list if the job has been vacant Sept 1st, is suddenly the man in all the land and all the world to do the business. I suppose another 3 years is nothing. No point banging on about it though, it is what it is, and the Arabs have certainly been sold by Cook and Hughes so little point in going on about it. Fingers crossed then. I'm sure it will all work out.
 
Just found this paragraph on Fergusons reign at the swamp

For the 1989-90 season, Ferguson further boosted his squad by paying large sums of money for midfielders Neil Webb and Paul Ince, as well as defender Gary Pallister (a national record £2.3million signing from Middlesbrough). The season began well with a 4-1 win over defending champions Arsenal on the opening day, but United's league form quickly turned sour. In September, United suffered a humiliating 5–1 away defeat against fierce rivals Manchester City. Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap. Ta ra Fergie."

If only those fans had got their way eh ? You can imagine the arguments for getting rid 'He's only ever managed at Aberdeen he can't handle the big players and a big club, get rid before he takes us down blah blah'

If the fans successfully get rid of Hughes we 'could' be getting rid of the best thing to ever happen to us and we will never know.

This other quote is also insightful and I see synergies between where Un*ted were then and we are now.

'Ferguson was appointed manager at Old Trafford on 6 November 1986. He was initially worried that many of the players, such as Norman Whiteside, Paul McGrath and Bryan Robson were drinking too much and was "depressed" by their level of fitness, but he managed to increase the players' discipline and United climbed up the table to finish the season in 11th place. Their only away win in the league that season was a 1-0 victory over Liverpool at Anfield'

It's about time we backed a manager and gave him time to make his mark on the club. We all know that with this money we can get success because we are/will be able to buy the best players in the world. The problem is that some fans have been institutionalised over 30 years with a negative mindset when it comes to City. It's like my missus, I can tell her 10 times how gorgeous she looks then the one time I mention about a dress making her bum looks big and all she focuses her attention on is the one bad comment not the the 10 good one's.

All City fans should be in a state of euphoria at the future we have but be aware it's not going to happen in half a season - learn the lesson of Fergiescum !
 
Blue Mooner said:
Just found this paragraph on Fergusons reign at the swamp

For the 1989-90 season, Ferguson further boosted his squad by paying large sums of money for midfielders Neil Webb and Paul Ince, as well as defender Gary Pallister (a national record £2.3million signing from Middlesbrough). The season began well with a 4-1 win over defending champions Arsenal on the opening day, but United's league form quickly turned sour. In September, United suffered a humiliating 5–1 away defeat against fierce rivals Manchester City. Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap. Ta ra Fergie."

If only those fans had got their way eh ? You can imagine the arguments for getting rid 'He's only ever managed at Aberdeen he can't handle the big players and a big club, get rid before he takes us down blah blah'

If the fans successfully get rid of Hughes we 'could' be getting rid of the best thing to ever happen to us and we will never know.

This other quote is also insightful and I see synergies between where Un*ted were then and we are now.

'Ferguson was appointed manager at Old Trafford on 6 November 1986. He was initially worried that many of the players, such as Norman Whiteside, Paul McGrath and Bryan Robson were drinking too much and was "depressed" by their level of fitness, but he managed to increase the players' discipline and United climbed up the table to finish the season in 11th place. Their only away win in the league that season was a 1-0 victory over Liverpool at Anfield'

It's about time we backed a manager and gave him time to make his mark on the club. We all know that with this money we can get success because we are/will be able to buy the best players in the world. The problem is that some fans have been institutionalised over 30 years with a negative mindset when it comes to City. It's like my missus, I can tell her 10 times how gorgeous she looks then the one time I mention about a dress making her bum looks big and all she focuses her attention on is the one bad comment not the the 10 good one's.

All City fans should be in a state of euphoria at the future we have but be aware it's not going to happen in half a season - learn the lesson of Fergiescum !

Good post!
 
Ducado said:
My take (been a City fan all my life)

For far to long there has been a culture of defeat and accepting third best at the club, this has sank into the very bones of the club (as can be seen on City forums) if we are going to get to be the Club we want to see (winning things) the ghost of the past needs to be exorcised.

I beleive that Hughes (despite some of my misgivings) is the man to do the job, and it is going to be painful as he builds a team that he wants, we want it all and we want it now, I have waited for so long I am prepared to wait that bit longer, as this new club takes shape

"... is the man to do the job"

Apart from blind faith and an overwhelming desperation and hope that we might finally land lucky with a manager... what is your actual reason for this optimism?

Based on... what, exactly?
 
Blue Mooner said:
It's like my missus, I can tell her 10 times how gorgeous she looks then the one time I mention about a dress making her bum looks big and all she focuses her attention on is the one bad comment not the the 10 good one's.

You got that spot on matey ;) Never ever tell a woman her bum looks big...Never.
 
Ducado said:
Blue Mooner said:
Just found this paragraph on Fergusons reign at the swamp

For the 1989-90 season, Ferguson further boosted his squad by paying large sums of money for midfielders Neil Webb and Paul Ince, as well as defender Gary Pallister (a national record £2.3million signing from Middlesbrough). The season began well with a 4-1 win over defending champions Arsenal on the opening day, but United's league form quickly turned sour. In September, United suffered a humiliating 5–1 away defeat against fierce rivals Manchester City. Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap. Ta ra Fergie."

If only those fans had got their way eh ? You can imagine the arguments for getting rid 'He's only ever managed at Aberdeen he can't handle the big players and a big club, get rid before he takes us down blah blah'

If the fans successfully get rid of Hughes we 'could' be getting rid of the best thing to ever happen to us and we will never know.

This other quote is also insightful and I see synergies between where Un*ted were then and we are now.

'Ferguson was appointed manager at Old Trafford on 6 November 1986. He was initially worried that many of the players, such as Norman Whiteside, Paul McGrath and Bryan Robson were drinking too much and was "depressed" by their level of fitness, but he managed to increase the players' discipline and United climbed up the table to finish the season in 11th place. Their only away win in the league that season was a 1-0 victory over Liverpool at Anfield'

It's about time we backed a manager and gave him time to make his mark on the club. We all know that with this money we can get success because we are/will be able to buy the best players in the world. The problem is that some fans have been institutionalised over 30 years with a negative mindset when it comes to City. It's like my missus, I can tell her 10 times how gorgeous she looks then the one time I mention about a dress making her bum looks big and all she focuses her attention on is the one bad comment not the the 10 good one's.

All City fans should be in a state of euphoria at the future we have but be aware it's not going to happen in half a season - learn the lesson of Fergiescum !

Good post!

Very good. Opened my eyes to the possibility that he might be going the same way - to success.
Hmmmm might give him another season then.

Though we cant automatically assume things will turn out the same way.
 
Blue Mooner said:
Just found this paragraph on Fergusons reign at the swamp

For the 1989-90 season, Ferguson further boosted his squad by paying large sums of money for midfielders Neil Webb and Paul Ince, as well as defender Gary Pallister (a national record £2.3million signing from Middlesbrough). The season began well with a 4-1 win over defending champions Arsenal on the opening day, but United's league form quickly turned sour. In September, United suffered a humiliating 5–1 away defeat against fierce rivals Manchester City. Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap. Ta ra Fergie."

If only those fans had got their way eh ? You can imagine the arguments for getting rid 'He's only ever managed at Aberdeen he can't handle the big players and a big club, get rid before he takes us down blah blah'

If the fans successfully get rid of Hughes we 'could' be getting rid of the best thing to ever happen to us and we will never know.

This other quote is also insightful and I see synergies between where Un*ted were then and we are now.

'Ferguson was appointed manager at Old Trafford on 6 November 1986. He was initially worried that many of the players, such as Norman Whiteside, Paul McGrath and Bryan Robson were drinking too much and was "depressed" by their level of fitness, but he managed to increase the players' discipline and United climbed up the table to finish the season in 11th place. Their only away win in the league that season was a 1-0 victory over Liverpool at Anfield'

It's about time we backed a manager and gave him time to make his mark on the club. We all know that with this money we can get success because we are/will be able to buy the best players in the world. The problem is that some fans have been institutionalised over 30 years with a negative mindset when it comes to City. It's like my missus, I can tell her 10 times how gorgeous she looks then the one time I mention about a dress making her bum looks big and all she focuses her attention on is the one bad comment not the the 10 good one's.

All City fans should be in a state of euphoria at the future we have but be aware it's not going to happen in half a season - learn the lesson of Fergiescum !

Another selective memory quote, repeating the endless myth that Fergie was about to be sacked because he was a failure.

Before Surly Alex took over at the swamp, he had dismantled the Old Firm dominance, for the first time in about 30 years... won the league a couple of times, the cup about 5 times, and best of all he won the ECWC, defeating Real Madrid in the final.

So he had a track record before he got to the Rags.

His second season he took them to Runners-Up in the league, after a mere half a season sorting them out.

When the fans turned on him at City (I was there and it was piss funny!), the club still had no itention of sacking him as the youth team was bubbling under.

Comparing the Fergie situation and Hughes current situation is nonsensical. Hughes has a track record no better than Souness, Allardyce, Kinnear or Redknapp. He therefore has much to prove before fans will support him as manager. To date he has failed miserably.

We harp on about how many managers we've sacked over the past 30 years, but I can't think of even one who went on to prove us wrong.

I hope Hughes turns it around, I really do. I just don't think there is any evidence, either currently or in the past, of him being capable of doing that. I suppose I could just cross my fingers and pray it all works out. Yeah, that might work.
 
PBLZ129 said:
Ducado said:
Good post!

Very good. Opened my eyes to the possibility that he might be going the same way - to success.
Hmmmm might give him another season then.

Though we cant automatically assume things will turn out the same way.


No but we can't continually go on and hope that sacking a manager will change the outcome. Changing the ethos, cultur and fabric of a football club takes time, you have to accept the there will be highs and lows on the way.

But the best thing we can have is continuity. Hughes has proved he has credentials he did a very good job with a small town club on a limited budget. Lets not get bogged down in the weeds and the detail and look at the bigger picture.
 
Ducado said:
Blue Mooner said:
Just found this paragraph on Fergusons reign at the swamp

For the 1989-90 season, Ferguson further boosted his squad by paying large sums of money for midfielders Neil Webb and Paul Ince, as well as defender Gary Pallister (a national record £2.3million signing from Middlesbrough). The season began well with a 4-1 win over defending champions Arsenal on the opening day, but United's league form quickly turned sour. In September, United suffered a humiliating 5–1 away defeat against fierce rivals Manchester City. Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap. Ta ra Fergie."

If only those fans had got their way eh ? You can imagine the arguments for getting rid 'He's only ever managed at Aberdeen he can't handle the big players and a big club, get rid before he takes us down blah blah'

If the fans successfully get rid of Hughes we 'could' be getting rid of the best thing to ever happen to us and we will never know.

This other quote is also insightful and I see synergies between where Un*ted were then and we are now.

'Ferguson was appointed manager at Old Trafford on 6 November 1986. He was initially worried that many of the players, such as Norman Whiteside, Paul McGrath and Bryan Robson were drinking too much and was "depressed" by their level of fitness, but he managed to increase the players' discipline and United climbed up the table to finish the season in 11th place. Their only away win in the league that season was a 1-0 victory over Liverpool at Anfield'

It's about time we backed a manager and gave him time to make his mark on the club. We all know that with this money we can get success because we are/will be able to buy the best players in the world. The problem is that some fans have been institutionalised over 30 years with a negative mindset when it comes to City. It's like my missus, I can tell her 10 times how gorgeous she looks then the one time I mention about a dress making her bum looks big and all she focuses her attention on is the one bad comment not the the 10 good one's.

All City fans should be in a state of euphoria at the future we have but be aware it's not going to happen in half a season - learn the lesson of Fergiescum !

Good post!

Great Post
 

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