Bradford City Fire

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: Was the Bradford fire deliberate?

As an aside, I see that our old friend Tony Attwood from Untold Arsenal has succeeded in pissing off a load of Bradford fans by posting an article relating to this on his website with a headline stating not that it might've been arson but that it WAS arson. The bloke is a fucking clown.

It's spelt Arsene mate.

Seriously it sounds unbelievable that someone would do this during a game but surely the best time to do it is when there's loads of people around? You arrange to start a fire, assume that people will have plenty of time to get out but it spreads faster than you think and exits are blocked.

 

[mindmyp's_n_q's]

Re: Was the Bradford fire deliberate?

If the motive was money, why start a fire in a soon to be demolished stand that because of the demolition had an insurance value of virtually zero?

 

[Petrovs left peg]

Re: Was the Bradford fire deliberate?

I somehow ended up watching this unfold on you tube a coupe of weeks ago and it left me feeling sick all day as id forgotten (don't ask my why) how horrific it was. I was amazed how long the match went on for whilst the stand was alight. I know it is with hindsight but the death toll could have been much less. It seemed like just smoke for a bit and then an inferno within seconds. No fences either.

I recommend you don't watch it either

 

[M18CTID]

Re: Was the Bradford fire deliberate?

As an aside, I see that our old friend Tony Attwood from Untold Arsenal has succeeded in pissing off a load of Bradford fans by posting an article relating to this on his website with a headline stating not that it might've been arson but that it WAS arson. The bloke is a fucking clown.

It's spelt Arsene mate.

Seriously it sounds unbelievable that someone would do this during a game but surely the best time to do it is when there's loads of people around? You arrange to start a fire, assume that people will have plenty of time to get out but it spreads faster than you think and exits are blocked.

That's a fair point and is a theory that a poster suggested on the Bradford forum when playing devil's advocate. However, he finished his post by saying

"That doesn't mean for a second that I think it was started deliberately, there's far too many other questions that need answering before that's even considered as even being a remote possibility." And then another poster took up the mantle by posting those many other questions:

"Just supposing that SH arranged to torch the stand...

1. What was his guarantee that it would burn down completely as opposed to a small section and not be put out?
2. To be guaranteed success wouldn't it have required a blow torch to start a big fire? How could you be confident that a cigarette would do the trick because countless cigs would have been dropped previously.
3. Wouldn't it have been somewhat obvious to people sat around the arsonist that a fire was being lit?
4. Why risk the chance of manslaughter?
5. How could you be confident of an insurance pay-out if you knew that you'd ignored a safety warning letter from the fire brigade?
6. What was the Plan B having burnt down the stand and not received a pay-out to rebuild it?"

I think it's one of those things PB that on the face of it has a definite whiff of suspicion when you consider what happened so many times previously with Heginbotham's other businesses but when you delve deeper it becomes a much less likely scenario.

 

[-nibz-]

Re: Was the Bradford fire deliberate?

It's spelt Arsene mate.

Seriously it sounds unbelievable that someone would do this during a game but surely the best time to do it is when there's loads of people around? You arrange to start a fire, assume that people will have plenty of time to get out but it spreads faster than you think and exits are blocked.

That's a fair point and is a theory that a poster suggested on the Bradford forum when playing devil's advocate. However, he finished his post by saying

"That doesn't mean for a second that I think it was started deliberately, there's far too many other questions that need answering before that's even considered as even being a remote possibility." And then another poster took up the mantle by posting those many other questions:

"Just supposing that SH arranged to torch the stand...

1. What was his guarantee that it would burn down completely as opposed to a small section and not be put out?
2. To be guaranteed success wouldn't it have required a blow torch to start a big fire? How could you be confident that a cigarette would do the trick because countless cigs would have been dropped previously.
3. Wouldn't it have been somewhat obvious to people sat around the arsonist that a fire was being lit?
4. Why risk the chance of manslaughter?
5. How could you be confident of an insurance pay-out if you knew that you'd ignored a safety warning letter from the fire brigade?
6. What was the Plan B having burnt down the stand and not received a pay-out to rebuild it?"

I think it's one of those things PB that on the face of it has a definite whiff of suspicion when you consider what happened so many times previously with Heginbotham's other businesses but when you delve deeper it becomes a much less likely scenario.

To be fair you could put all them questions to anyone that does this for a quick pay out. As for point 3. Probably if he was using a blow torch. Seriously though, it probably made more sense to do it when people were about. Other than an empty stadium with no power sources. Plus they were warned about the rubbish piling up, so knew of the 'fire risks'.

 

[M18CTID]

Re: Was the Bradford fire deliberate?

It's spelt Arsene mate.

Seriously it sounds unbelievable that someone would do this during a game but surely the best time to do it is when there's loads of people around? You arrange to start a fire, assume that people will have plenty of time to get out but it spreads faster than you think and exits are blocked.

That's a fair point and is a theory that a poster suggested on the Bradford forum when playing devil's advocate. However, he finished his post by saying

"That doesn't mean for a second that I think it was started deliberately, there's far too many other questions that need answering before that's even considered as even being a remote possibility." And then another poster took up the mantle by posting those many other questions:

"Just supposing that SH arranged to torch the stand...

1. What was his guarantee that it would burn down completely as opposed to a small section and not be put out?
2. To be guaranteed success wouldn't it have required a blow torch to start a big fire? How could you be confident that a cigarette would do the trick because countless cigs would have been dropped previously.
3. Wouldn't it have been somewhat obvious to people sat around the arsonist that a fire was being lit?
4. Why risk the chance of manslaughter?
5. How could you be confident of an insurance pay-out if you knew that you'd ignored a safety warning letter from the fire brigade?
6. What was the Plan B having burnt down the stand and not received a pay-out to rebuild it?"

I think it's one of those things PB that on the face of it has a definite whiff of suspicion when you consider what happened so many times previously with Heginbotham's other businesses but when you delve deeper it becomes a much less likely scenario.

To be fair you could put all them questions to anyone that does this for a quick pay out. As for point 3. Probably if he was using a blow torch. Seriously though, it probably made more sense to do it when people were about. Other than an empty stadium with no power sources. Plus they were warned about the rubbish piling up, so knew of the 'fire risks'.

I'm not saying it definitely wasn't deliberate mate but it's very unlikely IMO. The allegations in this book are pretty much unfounded and the timing of it, coinciding with the 30th anniversary of the disaster, isn't the best.

 

[moh]

Re: Was the Bradford fire deliberate?

That's a fair point and is a theory that a poster suggested on the Bradford forum when playing devil's advocate. However, he finished his post by saying

"That doesn't mean for a second that I think it was started deliberately, there's far too many other questions that need answering before that's even considered as even being a remote possibility." And then another poster took up the mantle by posting those many other questions:

"Just supposing that SH arranged to torch the stand...

1. What was his guarantee that it would burn down completely as opposed to a small section and not be put out?
2. To be guaranteed success wouldn't it have required a blow torch to start a big fire? How could you be confident that a cigarette would do the trick because countless cigs would have been dropped previously.
3. Wouldn't it have been somewhat obvious to people sat around the arsonist that a fire was being lit?
4. Why risk the chance of manslaughter?
5. How could you be confident of an insurance pay-out if you knew that you'd ignored a safety warning letter from the fire brigade?
6. What was the Plan B having burnt down the stand and not received a pay-out to rebuild it?"

I think it's one of those things PB that on the face of it has a definite whiff of suspicion when you consider what happened so many times previously with Heginbotham's other businesses but when you delve deeper it becomes a much less likely scenario.

To be fair you could put all them questions to anyone that does this for a quick pay out. As for point 3. Probably if he was using a blow torch. Seriously though, it probably made more sense to do it when people were about. Other than an empty stadium with no power sources. Plus they were warned about the rubbish piling up, so knew of the 'fire risks'.

I'm not saying it definitely wasn't deliberate mate but it's very unlikely IMO. The allegations in this book are pretty much unfounded and the timing of it, coinciding with the 30th anniversary of the disaster, isn't the best.

You don't have to hold the lit blow torch to the floor in between your legs where you are sat in the wooden stand for that to work do you

A quick "pop to the toilet"...let yourself into a room/area you have key for.....light blowtorch....aim at a chair or piece of wood...return to your seat and wait for 10 minutes nobody is any the wiser

I am more interested in the fact I read in another article that said that when the crowd made their way to the emergency exits they saw they were chained and padlocked and thought they were trapped but then it turns out the padlocks were in fact undone - the same doors that were normally opened with 10/15 mins of the game to go to let people out had on that day of all days been opened earlier than normal

That is more interesting if you ask me

 

[dennishasdoneit]

Re: Was the Bradford fire deliberate?

To be fair you could put all them questions to anyone that does this for a quick pay out. As for point 3. Probably if he was using a blow torch. Seriously though, it probably made more sense to do it when people were about. Other than an empty stadium with no power sources. Plus they were warned about the rubbish piling up, so knew of the 'fire risks'.

I'm not saying it definitely wasn't deliberate mate but it's very unlikely IMO. The allegations in this book are pretty much unfounded and the timing of it, coinciding with the 30th anniversary of the disaster, isn't the best.

You don't have to hold the lit blow torch to the floor in between your legs where you are sat in the wooden stand for that to work do you

A quick "pop to the toilet"...let yourself into a room/area you have key for.....light blowtorch....aim at a chair or piece of wood...return to your seat and wait for 10 minutes nobody is any the wiser

I am more interested in the fact I read in another article that said that when the crowd made their way to the emergency exits they saw they were chained and padlocked and thought they were trapped but then it turns out the padlocks were in fact undone - the same doors that were normally opened with 10/15 mins of the game to go to let people out had on that day of all days been opened earlier than normal

That is more interesting if you ask me

Whats also very interesting is that it was the last home match of the season...a man/club in financial dire straits has to get through the summer months with no footy income...a fire starts... at a ground where footy has been played for what, 80 years previously without any disasters caused by fire....

 

[whp.blue]

Re: Was the Bradford fire deliberate?

Why has this come to light now? anyone who has covered this up should be prosecuted for aiding and abetting.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

Re: Was the Bradford fire deliberate?

I remember, at the time, there was a reference to the comments made by Simon Inglis, in Football Grounds of England, (published a couple of years previously),when he had noted a mounting pile of discarded litter and empty cigarette.packets underneath the stand.

In retrospect, I suppose you could look at it in two ways. It was either an accident waiting to happen, or it created the perfect opportunity for someone to make it look like an accident.