Bundesliga thread 2020/21

cptaidan88 said:
Think that's slightly naīve. There is no one in ours that can compete with us financially.
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Deloitte Football Money League 2024

The 27th edition of the Deloitte Football Money League profiles the highest revenue generating clubs in world football over the 2022/23 season.
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This is incorrect. Clubs like Chelsea, Liverpool, United and even Spurs are all operating on similar revenues to us. Last year 2 clubs (Liverpool and United) both had higher revenues than we did, and the year before that Liverpool and us were basically level.

We are now compliant with FFP and have been compliant for every year after 2014 (where we were fined and had a squad reduction). The reality is, if the ownership of other clubs wanted to scrap profit dividends and re-invest money in infrastructure and signings, they could and would do it. Therefore they can in fact compete with us.

The gap between Barca/Real and Athleti is something like 300+ million. Same gap between Bayern and Dortmund. Those clubs can't compete in the same way long-term.

It really isn't City's fault that we're better run by winning-oriented ownership.
 
Henri Regnault said:
www2.deloitte.com

Deloitte Football Money League 2024

The 27th edition of the Deloitte Football Money League profiles the highest revenue generating clubs in world football over the 2022/23 season.
www2.deloitte.com www2.deloitte.com

This is incorrect. Clubs like Chelsea, Liverpool, United and even Spurs are all operating on similar revenues to us. Last year 2 clubs (Liverpool and United) both had higher revenues than we did, and the year before that Liverpool and us were basically level.

We are now compliant with FFP and have been compliant for every year after 2014 (where we were fined and had a squad reduction). The reality is, if the ownership of other clubs wanted to scrap profit dividends and re-invest money in infrastructure and signings, they could and would do it. Therefore they can in fact compete with us.

The gap between Barca/Real and Athleti is something like 300+ million. Same gap between Bayern and Dortmund. Those clubs can't compete in the same way long-term.

It really isn't City's fault that we're better run by winning-oriented ownership.
Click to expand...
You're ignoring the CFG though.

For example, the accounts ending June 19, our (Manchester City's) operating expenses were £434m, but City Football group (so including City and the other teams) were £754m. I'd be amazed if the sum total spend for the rest of the teams in CFG was more than £30m. Liverpools for comparison were £484m. So we're talking £200m+ difference there in reality.

Our strucure means we can absorb costs (% of players/management salaries and bonuses) into the group. MCFC made profit, the group made a huge loss. The group doesn't have to comply with FFP - so these things can be legally manipulated depending on how you want to paint the picture.

Clever, and completely legitimate accounting, but again, it is naive to think we're competing on an equal footing to the other teams in England. We do spend a lot more, but we also generally recruit better too/better structure, so its a combination of things. But we have a tremendous advantage - that cannot be disputed.

There was a stage last season where we had won 8 out of 9 domestic trophies available, and we are expected by bookies/fans/pundits to win the domestic treble again. As a City fan its great, long may it continue - but its hypocritical to criticise other leagues for something we are guilty of.

Anyway.... in summary to my original point the Bundesliga is good.
 
cptaidan88 said:
...

Our strucure means we can absorb costs (% of players/management salaries and bonuses) into the group. MCFC made profit, the group made a huge loss. The group doesn't have to comply with FFP - so these things can be legally manipulated depending on how you want to paint the picture.

Clever, and completely legitimate accounting, but again, it is naive to think we're competing on an equal footing to the other teams in England. We do spend a lot more, but we also generally recruit better too/better structure, so its a combination of things. But we have a tremendous advantage - that cannot be disputed.

There was a stage last season where we had won 8 out of 9 domestic trophies available, and we are expected by bookies/fans/pundits to win the domestic treble again. As a City fan its great, long may it continue - but its hypocritical to criticise other leagues for something we are guilty of.

Anyway.... in summary to my original point the Bundesliga is good.
Click to expand...
Not sure that's right at all, any work done by management for CFG will (rightly) be attributed to CFG's books but that's all.
 
cptaidan88 said:
You're ignoring the CFG though.

Our strucure means we can absorb costs (% of players/management salaries and bonuses) into the group.
Click to expand...
Didn't FFP bust us for this in 2014 with the whole Longbow thing (fine, squad reduction)? I don't think FFP allows this kind of structure, can you provide evidence this is how we're doing business? I'm curious.

My argument is that since we're compliant with FFP we're spending out of the same actual revenue that other clubs are, and those revenues are pretty similar. CFG may allow us to move some backroom staff out of the club but how much of that is really helping? Player wage bill is by far the biggest part of our operating costs.
 
Henri Regnault said:
Didn't FFP bust us for this in 2014 with the whole Longbow thing (fine, squad reduction)? I don't think FFP allows this kind of structure, can you provide evidence this is how we're doing business? I'm curious.

My argument is that since we're compliant with FFP we're spending out of the same actual revenue that other clubs are, and those revenues are pretty similar. CFG may allow us to move some backroom staff out of the club but how much of that is really helping? Player wage bill is by far the biggest part of our operating costs.
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The detailed information isn't shared publicly (which I suspect you know), so it can't be provided to support my suspicions, but conversely it doesn't disprove them either.

I've come up with a rational explanation for the difference, but would you care to speculate on what else would lead to CFG's additional £320m of operating expenses? I've googled the other clubs and a total of £30m is a fair (perhaps generous) total for the other clubs budgets combined.
 
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