Cameron vetoes EU Treaty change

[Ancient Citizen]

I was quite happy about this, the impact will be known soon but a euro tax on the city of london would of killed us off completely. They already have enough power anyway. The UK is called treasure island to importers us not signing our souls away to the French and Germans will not change that

Agreed. The idea that we would somehow be excluded from trade is ridiculous. It never happened pre Common market and it wouldn't now, we have a voracious appetite for imports and any kind of retaliatory sanctions would backfire on the sanctioning country(s).

 

[smudgedj]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16104275

He claims what was on offer wasn't in Britain's interests. So, rather than going and vetoing the entire thing why didn't he remain in negotiation? He's merely ignoring what could be best for our country in order to win favour with the eurosceptic wing in his own party.

Most importantly, it appears that, to quote John Major, we're now outside the tent pissing in. We've lost credibility and influence in Europe thanks to our Prime Minister. Because what's going to happen now is a eurozone-only deal which leads to a two-tier Europe. It seems he wants it both ways; he wants to be inside Europe but he wants control of everything. That's impossible, and I agree with Sarkozy that he's simply being unreasonable.

“The UK is as isolated as somebody who refused to join the Titanic just before it sailed” – City Broker Terry Smith

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

As someone who sits in the middle politically I don't share the same visceral hatred for the Tories as many posters on here.

That said, watching their worst Little England characteristics come out in times such as these reminds me why I've always stopped short of voting for them. I actually find their sneering and small minded antipathy to all things European to be barbaric and deeply unpleasant.

The EU is far from perfect, but it has brought peace to a large part of a continent which spent the previous 1000 years in a virtually perpetual cycle of war. It has also overseen a bewildering increase in living standards in its member states, some of which were virtually third world countries when it was formed in the 1950's.

What many people fail to relaise that in order to have a free market, common rules and laws relating to goods, products, services and the labour force are essential. You can't have one without the other - at least not in any functioning sense.

People talk about the surrender of our powers as if it's still the 1930's. There is a tidal wave of change coming to the western world and the best way we can try and minimise the damage it will inflict on us is to stick together not fracture apart.

We are not some isolated Kingdom like 19th Century Japan, we are European, as much as the Spanish or the French, the lineage of our Royal Family is one of many examples that supports this assertion.

Anyone who thinks that isolating ourselves from the rest of Europe will have no bearing on our trade has a very poor grasp of history, and more importantly human nature.

It's a big world out there and we're not the swinging dicks of the playground like we were fifty years ago and I, for one, don't fancy our chances out there if we're walking through that jungle on our own.

 

[u2fme2]

far to little and far far too late

 

[Cheesy]

As someone who sits in the middle politically I don't share the same visceral hatred for the Tories as many posters on here.

That said, watching their worst Little England characteristics come out in times such as these reminds me why I've always stopped short of voting for them. I actually find their sneering and small minded antipathy to all things European to be barbaric and deeply unpleasant.

The EU is far from perfect, but it has brought peace to a large part of a continent which spent the previous 1000 years in a virtually perpetual cycle of war. It has also overseen a bewildering increase in living standards in its member states, some of which were virtually third world countries when it was formed in the 1950's.

What many people fail to relaise that in order to have a free market, common rules and laws relating to goods, products, services and the labour force are essential. You can't have one without the other - at least not in any functioning sense.

People talk about the surrender of our powers as if it's still the 1930's. There is a tidal wave of change coming to the western world and the best way we can try and minimise the damage it will inflict on us is to stick together not fracture apart.

We are not some isolated Kingdom like 19th Century Japan, we are European, as much as the Spanish or the French, the lineage of our Royal Family is one of many examples that supports this assertion.

Anyone who thinks that isolating ourselves from the rest of Europe will have no bearing on our trade has a very poor grasp of history, and more importantly human nature.

It's a big world out there and we're not the swinging dicks of the playground like we were fifty years ago and I, for one, don't fancy our chances out there if we're walking through that jungle on our own.

The same 'isolation' argument was used during the debate of whether to join the single currency or not. Turns out we were right not to do so.

 

[BimboBob]

As someone who sits in the middle politically I don't share the same visceral hatred for the Tories as many posters on here.

That said, watching their worst Little England characteristics come out in times such as these reminds me why I've always stopped short of voting for them. I actually find their sneering and small minded antipathy to all things European to be barbaric and deeply unpleasant.

The EU is far from perfect, but it has brought peace to a large part of a continent which spent the previous 1000 years in a virtually perpetual cycle of war. It has also overseen a bewildering increase in living standards in its member states, some of which were virtually third world countries when it was formed in the 1950's.

What many people fail to relaise that in order to have a free market, common rules and laws relating to goods, products, services and the labour force are essential. You can't have one without the other - at least not in any functioning sense.

People talk about the surrender of our powers as if it's still the 1930's. There is a tidal wave of change coming to the western world and the best way we can try and minimise the damage it will inflict on us is to stick together not fracture apart.

We are not some isolated Kingdom like 19th Century Japan, we are European, as much as the Spanish or the French, the lineage of our Royal Family is one of many examples that supports this assertion.

Anyone who thinks that isolating ourselves from the rest of Europe will have no bearing on our trade has a very poor grasp of history, and more importantly human nature.

It's a big world out there and we're not the swinging dicks of the playground like we were fifty years ago and I, for one, don't fancy our chances out there if we're walking through that jungle on our own.

The EU has not brought peace. It has had nothing to do with any peace treaties signed in the Balkans etc. What the EU has brought, and it is different to the Common Market, is a unified currancy and a unified trading zone. Ish. The trouble is countries like Greece (who lied about debt levels) are rushed in for some reason and then they wonder why it all goes tits up.

We are not the same, a united Europe will never work due to the differences and thousands of years history. We still mistrust the French and Germans. We don't understand most of Europe. The German people mistrust the Russians, Dutch and Belgians. The French mistrust everyone.

Thinking that by signing up to the EU will make everyone happy is madness and was bound to fail especially as they broke rules right at the start.

 

[leighton]

It will be another reforendum for Ireland more than likely. Were screwed because of bailing out the banks. I dont know what Kenny is doing but were getting screwed big time. I cant see the people if it goes to the vote voting this in so its all pie in the sky for Irish people at the time being. We are looking for a cut in our terms for the bailout and if we dont get it from these talks then I cant see the people of Ireland voting it out. I cant see it working. Ireland will still trade with the UK no matter what most of our trade is between the Uk more so than anywhere else I cant see why that would change for us.

French and German bastards wanting all the power. IF anything if the UK went with it they would have more of a say than France would have as they are more safe than Germany or France if this hits the shit.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The EU started with the right intentions of creating a single market for European goods and services. But that was just the equivalent of a kiddie-fiddler doling out the lollipops. It's clear now that the intention was always to create a federal European state. This isn't in itself a bad thing but they've ignored all sorts of realities to try to achieve it.

They set very good fiscal rules but promptly ignored them when they got in the way of further expansion and gave themselves legal powers that had little to do with political and economic union but everything to do with the exercise of power. The new treaty will not protect the euro as there are no bail-out funds or firewalls, which are the prime requisite to do this. The Germans are in effect saying that it's their way or the highway but Mrs Merkel does not have all the answers.

I used to be passionately pro-European but having seen what a bureaucratic fuck-up they've made of it, the sooner we get out the better. I'm fully behind Cameron on this.

 

[BimboBob]

It will be another reforendum for Ireland more than likely. Were screwed because of bailing out the banks. I dont know what Kenny is doing but were getting screwed big time. I cant see the people if it goes to the vote voting this in so its all pie in the sky for Irish people at the time being. We are looking for a cut in our terms for the bailout and if we dont get it from these talks then I cant see the people of Ireland voting it out. I cant see it working. Ireland will still trade with the UK no matter what most of our trade is between the Uk more so than anywhere else I cant see why that would change for us.

French and German bastards wanting all the power. IF anything if the UK went with it they would have more of a say than France would have as they are more safe than Germany or France if this hits the shit.

That was the other thing. Ireland voted no at first and they got the hump and demanded a re-vote. Total madness and look what eventually happened.

 

[Seosa]

That was the other thing. Ireland voted no at first and they got the hump and demanded a re-vote. Total madness and look what eventually happened.

I've always wondered why this happened, how did the re-vote come about?