Carillion going bust

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TCIB said:
Edwina Currie talks to my mum often as they seem to have the same shopping day at marks and sparks. The woman says often to mum that the lot of them are dodgy, even young idealistic wide eyed good eggs get absorbed into the system. The casual conversations apparently can often talk about the public as if we are scum and a problem to be overcome as much as any honest efforts at something being chatted over a glass of fine wine.

We could do worse than dissolve it all and start fresh with people from outside the system but it will never happen.
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Probably the best opening sentence ever written on bluemoon.
 
Vic said:
th cash flow problems

So your anti-Corbyn thing was just being anti-Corbyn? You criticised him for saying it was a mistake for the government to keep giving loss-leading contracts to a firm with cashflow problems.
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No I just criticise him for his whopper double standards. (Amongst the many flaws he has)

He is simply a serial complainer who will complain and protest about anything and everything. That is his role in life. It's what he is.

Had Corillion gone bust as a result of the government not awarding them contracts, do you think he would have been saying "well done the government"???

No, nor does anyone else.

The guy is an arse of the highest order.
 
SWP's back said:
Kingman isn’t and wasn’t a personal shareholder in Carillion though was he.

Can you tell the group what Kingman has done badly or why he wasn’t the best candidate for the role?

Used to work as Gordon Brown’s Secretary and then was given a top job by Labour’s Chancellor Alistair Darling no? His CV is rather impressive isn’t it? He’s liked by both sides of the house despite being a Labour Man.

I have a feeling you read one ‘article’ and posted half arsed.

Also can you provide evidence he ‘ran’ one of the Carillion pension schemes as I can’t find him registered as a trustee.

How has he ruined any working class lives,just out of interest?

Other than that, great post.
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Just really qyick as im working but John Kingman is chair of L&G who is classed as a major shareholder for Carillon. 1.4million to be precise.

Ill get back to the rest when i have time and yiure very welcome my friend ;)
 
Ricster said:
Just really qyick as im working but John Kingman is chair of L&G who is classed as a major shareholder for Carillon. 1.4million to be precise.

Ill get back to the rest when i have time and yiure very welcome my friend ;)
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Yes they were already shareholders in Carillion before he was appointed chair.

That doesn’t mean he was a shareholder as you implied (actually you didn’t just imply it, you stated it), nor that he ran the pension scheme. And yes, I know L and G managed one, but it’s the trustees that run them and the Carillion board that can choose the funding level etc, not the pension provider (L and G).
 
Ricster said:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-branded-totally l-hypocrite-trousering-11868280.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Oh dear
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Go on, what’s anyone done wrong here? Can you explain why you say ‘oh dear’?

The Tories accepted a 50k donation in May from a hedge fund. That same hedge fund bet on Carillion’s shareprice going down (correctly) after releasing a profit warning and was one of many funds to do the same.

That’s what hedge funds have the discretion to do, it’s called short selling. It’s not illegal, it’s not even morally questionable.

So how was May meant to know the dealing position of every trade that every potential donor was meant to hold, several months before they held it?

I literally don’t think I’ve ever seen a more pointless article. The hedge fund played no part in Carillion’s demise any more than you betting on City losing to Liverpool and making a few quid out of it would have contributed to that defeat.

Ps, still excited to hear why Kingman shouldn’t have been given that job by the government.
 
Chippy_boy said:
If my aunt had bollocks, the government awarding Carillon further contracts in 2016 and 2017 would have been enough to prevent them folding and would have saved thousands of jobs. And she'd have been my uncle. Things don't always go to plan.

However, I'm not one to advocate government intervention: In fact as an admirer of Thatcher, quite the opposite. I was merely reflecting that sometimes decisions are more complicated especially when thousands of jobs are at stake.

Corbyn's stance is typically hilarious however: We shouldn't have been handing government contracts to Carillion (which would probably have seen them go under sooner) and now they have gone under, we have not done or are not doing enough to keep them afloat. The man is of course a buffoon.
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Still don't understand the fixation on the fact that Carillion would have gone under sooner - what does that matter? Last Sept or this Monday they were still badly managed and yes we agree Govt intervention ( from a free market thinking Govt ) is just wrong.

Jeremy Corbyn isn't on about keeping the entity Carillion afloat - he advocates support for those who work for them, SME's facing oblivion as they won't get paid and support of the contracts which need to keep day to day running going - i.e. putting school meals on tables and making sure prisons don't become mass riots etc. You assessment of Corbyn's stance is just incorrect as clearly someone advocating public ownership of public services would not also advocate Carillion as a business should be saved as is and keep on reqarding its senior team.
 
TCIB said:
Am i the only one who thinks it is a good name for a Star Wars type of ship.

"Akbar, get that carillion cruiser ready you lazy twat"
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Someone brought carillion on board and I've lost my superpowers.
 
SWP's back said:
Yes they were already shareholders in Carillion before he was appointed chair.

That doesn’t mean he was a shareholder as you implied (actually you didn’t just imply it, you stated it), nor that he ran the pension scheme. And yes, I know L and G managed one, but it’s the trustees that run them and the Carillion board that can choose the funding level etc, not the pension provider (L and G).
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Youll also know that L&G are connected with a pension fund for Interserve which was mentioned on here earlier in the thread.
And so i dont have to quote your next postmy response to you is the same.

Oh dear
 
Ricster said:
Youll also know that L&G are connected with a pension fund for Interserve which was mentioned on here earlier in the thread.
And so i dont have to quote your next postmy response to you is the same.

Oh dear
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You’ve not answered a single question and L and G run a lot of pension schemes because they are a fucking pension company.

  • So what did Kingman do wrong?
  • Hows he not qualified for the job he got?
  • Which working class lives has he ruined?
  • Are you aware he came into office under Gordon Brown and Alaistair Darling?
  • Do you accept he any and wasn’t a Carillion Shareholder?
  • Do you know that Carillion Shareholders have lost their money?
  • Are you aware L and G were a shareholder of Carillion before he was appointed chair?
  • Why is it wrong to accept money from a hedge fund several months before they make a perfectly legal and correct trade on a company (two days after they released a profit warning)?
Just accept you read one badly written and poorly research ‘article’, likely in the Canary and decided to spout off and make yourself look a bit silly.

Sometimes it’s best to not comment or opine on things you’re not sure of, just because you read it online.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Still don't understand the fixation on the fact that Carillion would have gone under sooner - what does that matter? Last Sept or this Monday they were still badly managed and yes we agree Govt intervention ( from a free market thinking Govt ) is just wrong.

Jeremy Corbyn isn't on about keeping the entity Carillion afloat - he advocates support for those who work for them, SME's facing oblivion as they won't get paid and support of the contracts which need to keep day to day running going - i.e. putting school meals on tables and making sure prisons don't become mass riots etc. You assessment of Corbyn's stance is just incorrect as clearly someone advocating public ownership of public services would not also advocate Carillion as a business should be saved as is and keep on reqarding its senior team.
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Fair enough, I haven't listened to Corbyn's every word as I have no time for the fool.

My point stands about him being nothing more than a serial protester though. As does my point that were Corillion to have gone under a couple of years ago, citing loss of key public sector contracts as a critical factor, he would have criticised to government for it. Now he's criticising them for awarding these same contracts.

That's his sole purpose in life: to sit on the sidelines and criticise. But by some bizarre twist of fate, he finds himself leader of the opposition. I think he'd be at sea if he was the one actually having to run the country, but fortunately we'll never know.
 
The Government were handing them contracts keeping them afloat. They were under a lot of pressure regarding the NHS. This crisis has now stopped the press talking about the NHS crisis, job done.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Reporting Pension deficit of £2.6 billion not the £500k as originally reported. Jeez they can't get anything right
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well the shareholder divi's and board bonuses have to come from somewhere FFS - if the Govt won't give you the money like they did the banks then someone has to provide why not the pension scheme. A fitting memorial to Robert Maxwell.
 
From the BBC news site. Let's see how long it takes for Mayday to put her words into action.

The government will stop workers' pensions being put at risk from "executives who try to line their own pockets", the prime minister has said.
In the Observer, Theresa May said a government white paper would set out "tough new rules" for company bosses.
It comes as construction firm Carillion's collapse could leave a pension scheme deficit of £900m, potentially affecting 27,500 workers.
She also defended using the private sector to complete public projects.
In her comment piece, Mrs May stressed that it would be Carillion shareholders, not taxpayers, "who pay the price for the company's collapse".
She said the government would not be writing the company's directors a blank cheque, but would be "stepping in and supporting those affected".
It was earlier reported that Carillion's defined benefit pension schemes has a deficit of £580m, although this figure could be as high as £900m.
 
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