Carol Thatcher and the racist remark

[shaundickov]

No, I won't enter into further discussion on this as I'm not a primary school teacher.

You keep ignoring the whole context thing on this one (apart from where it's suits your snide points, of course) and trying to compare racism and sexism to gingerism and bigearism. I'll do my best to ignore you.

I've deleted the bits where you've simply slagged me off because they don't further this debate.

I think the real reason you won't enter into further discussion is that however much you try, you can't hide the glaring hypocrisy at play here from those who suggest that if an insult is 'racist', it makes it worse (e.g. more worthy of the sack) than other offensive insults, eg a sexist insult.

Let's agree to disagree John on whether 'gollywog' is more offensive than 'woman' etc, and leave it there.

Right, you've pushed the right buttons on me here.

For some reason I've got this guilt complex where, even when I consider someone to having peddled some nasty stuff, as I do with you on here, I can't hack it if I get unjustly personal (although I don't think you are particularly whiter than white on this score - if not on this thread, then in other stuff I've witnessed).

So, for any of the personal stuff, I apologise. That's in relation to you as an individual. In relation to some of the words you type, I still think some of them stink and are deserving of any insults thrown their way.

I addressed why ginger and big ears are totally different to racist comments. You at first chose to ignore it. Now, after it's been spelt out in ridiculously simplistic terms, you are obsessed to still try and salvage something from your barren argument by moving onto sexism and comparing that with racism.

Suffice to say, context is key again. I'm not getting into your grading game as the comparison between the two is totally different to the original idiotic ginger/big ears/racism comparison that you were desperate to peddle.

Rather than feed your desperate attempts to shift the goalposts, I'd be much more interested in finding out why you have flitted from one comparison to another in an increasingly desperate attempt to downgrade the seriousness of the comments.

That's pretty sad, especially as there's been absolutely no attempt to address the arguments of context and explanations of why your original comparisons were, as they say, 'baloney'.

i.e. "You're right, it is hypocritical to think racist insults are worse than sexist ones, even though my twisted thinking thinks that racist insults are somehow worse.

BUT i still think racist ones are worse than 'big ears' and 'ginge' because of the historical context."


The first part I don't blame you for John, I blame a certain section of our society for peddling this ridiculous notion that racism is worse than sexism just because they think: 'women can take a joke, ethnic minorities can't'. An assumption that is actually more racist and sexist than anything I've read or posted on this forum.

The second part, as I said before, let's agree to disagree. You've explained why you think calling someone 'big lips' is worse than calling someone 'big ears' - I think the 2 insults are EQUALLY offensive. We are NEVER going to agree on this point, so let's just leave it there.

 

[M18CTID]

I've not read the whole thread and I'm not getting involved in the shaundickov/JMA cossfire either but I'll try and give my opinion on what has happened.

I think the BBC have over-reacted here. From what I can gather, the context in which Carol Thatcher used the term wasn't in a nasty racist way - more in a naive manner. And all this talk of her not apologising - apparently she did apologise but because it wasn't a totally unequivocal, kneeling-down-on-the-floor, begging type of apology it doesn't count. Well I think that's bollocks - if what she'd said was done in a racist way then fair enough, sack her. But I don't believe for one minute she meant it in that way. Also, I've heard that it was Adrian Chiles who blew the whistle on this and went running to his bosses to ask them to sort it out. If that's true then it shows him up to be a grassing shithouse - why the fuck didn't he deal with it himself and sort it out with Carol Thatcher?

Also, where do we draw the line here? The gollywog doll has been a popular toy for generations of kids - does that mean everyone who has ever owned one or still owns one is a racist? Are Robertson's Jam a bunch of racists too because they used the golly as their mascot for over 70 years? Are they fuck. And that's because none of these people looked upon the golly in a demeaning way but as a symbol of their affection. And that, I'm sure, is how Carol Thatcher views it. Okay, it wasn't wise what she did but if anyone is stupid enough to think she meant it in a racist way then they want their heads testing.

 

[The Kurious Oranj]

I have a history degree so I do know that persecution of women through the ages has been far more widespread than persecution of black people by white people or anyone else for that matter. I never said there were no black females.

Whilst in Britain the BBC is sacking people for saying gollywog, in the Middle East women are not allowed to drive cars. Which is more serious?

How come offensive words about women are deemed less offensive than offensive words about black people?

I'm sorry, but as well meaning your intentions are, I'll say that your degree is worth only the subjective view on history, that you've learned! What do you know of the true figures of abuse of murder of a race? You know what you've been taught or have read. I'm not going to pretend about having a clue about the figures of women killed/ abused, but I'll not accept that you know that those figures are higher than the sufferance of a race! there's no proof, just subjective view! I wonder if you're taking into account things like The Biafran
War with the British, that my mother escaped, where hundreds of thousands died??

Somehow, I don't think so. history has, and always will be subjective to the story teller. So, it will always depend on whom you gather the stories from...

Surely that was a Nigerian civil war?

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

I really cannot be bothered

 

[M18CTID]

I hope the stupid racist woman never works in media again
joins a long line of racist tory twerps who have never left 1923

Bollocks. She makes a comment that compares someone with a doll that many people used to keep as a toy and from that you've managed to come up with the idea that she's a racist, and you try to back it up with pathetic statements such as "Tory" and "1923" which in themselves have exposed for all to see just what your real beef is here.

I don't know the woman anymore than you do but I'd hazard an educated guess that Carol Thatcher is not and never has been a racist. She naively made a comment that in all probability wasn't intended to offend anyone and because of that she's being hung, drawn, and quartered by all and sundry. People should get over it, get a life, and direct their vitriol at the true racists in our midst rather than picking on such an easy target who quite clearly hasn't got a maliciously racist bone in her body.

 

[Bigga]

I have a history degree so I do know that persecution of women through the ages has been far more widespread than persecution of black people by white people or anyone else for that matter. I never said there were no black females.

Whilst in Britain the BBC is sacking people for saying gollywog, in the Middle East women are not allowed to drive cars. Which is more serious?

How come offensive words about women are deemed less offensive than offensive words about black people?

I'm sorry, but as well meaning your intentions are, I'll say that your degree is worth only the subjective view on history, that you've learned! What do you know of the true figures of abuse of murder of a race? You know what you've been taught or have read. I'm not going to pretend about having a clue about the figures of women killed/ abused, but I'll not accept that you know that those figures are higher than the sufferance of a race! there's no proof, just subjective view! I wonder if you're taking into account things like The Biafran
War with the British, that my mother escaped, where hundreds of thousands died??

Somehow, I don't think so. history has, and always will be subjective to the story teller. So, it will always depend on whom you gather the stories from...

Surely that was a Nigerian civil war?

That's what 'history' teaches you. But, since my mother was caught up in it and escaped it, I'll believe what she tells me. That war was aided by the British as Nigeria is a country made by them. The Biafrans didn't want to be apart of that and so the 'civil war' happened.

 

[Bigga]

JMA, you're wasting your time. Shaun Dickov and his like have been spreading vile racist shite for some time on here now, only last week he likened the current president of America to a monkey. That's the level you're dealing with here.

True. I asked Mr. Dickov to back up a very wild claim he made earlier, in the context of history and I've yet to hear a single reply to it.

 

[kronkonite]

I hope the stupid racist woman never works in media again
joins a long line of racist tory twerps who have never left 1923

She makes a comment that compares someone with a racial stereotype that many racist parents used to buy their kids as a toy and from that I use intelligence to discern she's a racist, I back it up with accurate statements such as "Tory"

I don't know the woman anymore than you do but I'd hazard an educated guess that Carol Thatcher is a racist. She purposely made a comment that in all certainty was intended to offend and because of that she should be being hung, drawn, and quartered by all and sundry. People should never forget and direct their vitriol at all racists in our midst and in particular pick on an easy target who quite clearly has got a maliciously racist bone in every being of her body.

 

[shaundickov]

True. I asked Mr. Dickov to back up a very wild claim he made earlier, in the context of history and I've yet to hear a single reply to it.

Are you referring to the claim I made that women have been persecuted more than black people through the ages?

I think you're on your own disagreeing with me on this one. I did back it up with simple maths - half of the world's population are women. If 1% of women through the ages have been persecuted, that would equate to more people than 90% of black people through the ages.

Solid facts on persecution simply don't exist. People argue numbers over the holocaust and that was only 6 million people, a miniscule fraction of the number of humans who have ever lived on our planet.

So all I can offer is overwhelming probability.

 

[M18CTID]

I hope the stupid racist woman never works in media again
joins a long line of racist tory twerps who have never left 1923

Bollocks. She makes a comment that compares someone with a doll that many people used to keep as a toy and from that i use inelligence to discern she's a racist, and you try to back it up with accurate statements such as "Tory" and "1923" which in themselves have exposed for all to see just what your real beef is here. I like beef

I don't know the woman anymore than you do but I'd hazard anl educated guess that Carol Thatcher is a racist. She purposely made a comment that in all certainty was intended to offend and because of that she should be being hung, drawn, and quartered by all and sundry. People should never for get and direct their vitriol at all racists in our midst and in particular pick on an easy target who quite clearly has got a maliciously racist bone in every being of her body.

Congratulations - you've just reinforced my belief that you're a total fucktard. Well done.