Freestyler
Well-Known Member
jonmcity said:
it will piss the **** off more when we get Jose.
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Chelsea Forum-sack the manager
- Thread starter jonmcity
- Start date
it will piss the **** off more when we get Jose.
wayne71 said:Some fans simply want a proven manager who has won things, is that to much to ask given our new financial status?
Despite you saying we are only a few points from 4th look at how far we actually are from the top team, we are 14 points away from the top and 10 away from a relegation spot. We could quite easily be midtable this time next week and given the money we've spent some of us dont think thats acceptable.
Yes it is.
Top four teams and top European clubs take years and years of building, getting a bunch of players together and growing a team, investing in youth, getting the training facilities up to scratch, getting the best staff in, etc. Sorting out the club as a whole is a huge job which Cooke and Hughes have undertaken.
Expecting us to show up, throw a bit of cash around and instantly qualify for the CL is dumb. Shouting about sacking the manager if this doesn't happen is even dumber.
This is not Football Manager, unfortunately the real world doesn't work this way. Chelsea came in to money, threw it around and finished second. That's two or three places above what they finished the season before which if we were to follow suit, would leave us seventh.
It's also shitting all over the efforts of other teams. Redknapp has spent heavily at Spurs, a club that had continued investment for many years, and bought the majority of his team from his old club, and players he had worked with before.
Villa have been building a side under O'Neill for many years.
Liverpool have a top manager, a club with a large history and a well gelled team.
Arsenal have a system of development through which they have brought many a player through and their team has played together for many years. They also have a top tactician in Wenger.
I shouldn't need to mention the building work that has gone on at Chelsea and United.
Why you believe we deserve to finish above any of these teams because we've had a bit of investment, is beyond me.
Also, so what if we have spent £2m or £200m? Do you really believe that that makes any difference to how the team should perform?
If Bolton bought Lionel Messi for £300m, do you think they should then win the league?
Damocles said:wayne71 said:Some fans simply want a proven manager who has won things, is that to much to ask given our new financial status?
Despite you saying we are only a few points from 4th look at how far we actually are from the top team, we are 14 points away from the top and 10 away from a relegation spot. We could quite easily be midtable this time next week and given the money we've spent some of us dont think thats acceptable.
Yes it is.
Top four teams and top European clubs take years and years of building, getting a bunch of players together and growing a team, investing in youth, getting the training facilities up to scratch, getting the best staff in, etc. Sorting out the club as a whole is a huge job which Cooke and Hughes have undertaken.
Expecting us to show up, throw a bit of cash around and instantly qualify for the CL is dumb. Shouting about sacking the manager if this doesn't happen is even dumber.
This is not Football Manager, unfortunately the real world doesn't work this way. Chelsea came in to money, threw it around and finished second. That's two or three places above what they finished the season before which if we were to follow suit, would leave us seventh.
It's also shitting all over the efforts of other teams. Redknapp has spent heavily at Spurs, a club that had continued investment for many years, and bought the majority of his team from his old club, and players he had worked with before.
Villa have been building a side under O'Neill for many years.
Liverpool have a top manager, a club with a large history and a well gelled team.
Arsenal have a system of development through which they have brought many a player through and their team has played together for many years. They also have a top tactician in Wenger.
I shouldn't need to mention the building work that has gone on at Chelsea and United.
Why you believe we deserve to finish above any of these teams because we've had a bit of investment, is beyond me.
Also, so what if we have spent £2m or £200m? Do you really believe that that makes any difference to how the team should perform?
If Bolton bought Lionel Messi for £300m, do you think they should then win the league?
top post for me.
Was just saying on another thread that it's about creating a winning mentality around the club as a whole - which unfortunately takes time. Big names will come with a winning mentality - but that has to be transfered and built up to create an atmosphere around the whole organisation. The money we've spent and the players we've signed will be a catalyst to generate this "winning atmosphere", but it will definately take time to complete. If and when it is however, it's all at our fingertips - and you'll see draws turning to wins consistently...and then it will be other fans typing the old "lucky City" threads on their message boards!!!
It might sound wishy-washy, but as you said mate, it aint Football Manager!!!
IrishMacca
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 5 Feb 2009
- Messages
- 1,242
This is one massive downside to the professional sport. Money brings expectations, and with it so do promises. Because of the professional game is so competitive, and expectations are so high, there is no room for error and there is no such thing as patience. No manager is given a decent chance these days, not in a top class team, and no players are let be developed either, perform now or they're out the door, either on loan or sold to a lower division club. It makes me wonder what the game would be like in England if it wasn't professional, if Man City and Man U, and all the other teams, had to make do with the players from their local teams, and had to develop them right from the underage.
In GAA, it's amateur, and you've got teams that have high expectation every season, and this isn't because we're able to buy in new players, it's not like that, you're stuck with what players play in the clubs in your county, and the best are picked to represent the county. But the good teams have excellent history and nearly always have a very succesful underage system.
Because football is so competitive, we pay no attention to our young players, they're never really ours, they're a few hopeful kids who, 1 of 4 might end up playing for the club. Because of the demand for success now, we've little or no time to test these boys out.
In GAA, even in rugby, we've meaningful underage system. In GAA we've minor teams, and then the U21 teams, and then senior. Players are able to develop in there, and with their clubs. Because of the demand for success now in the Premiership we give no time to the youth, and just bring in all ready developed talent from across the water. In Cork hurling, this legend of the game, he wrote his bio, saying how he first heard of these twins, when they were 14 years old playing with their club, they're now 2 massive players that the team cannot live without. They are a massive part of the engine and why the team has been so succesful. We see players, we have our players develop, well we try to do so. And it leads to succesful teams.
Players are given chances and managers are given chances as well. The start of the season, the very first competition is where nearly always the kids are given a go, and managers try out tactics, and it's build on from there on in. Winning that comp doesn't really mean much in comparison to the teams who have their eye on the comp that follows. What follows is in their view much more important, and the one after that, even more so. The success of a season is seen by top teams whether you're there playing in the final and winning that cup in September. If not, it's been, in the cruel light of day, a failure. If you win that first comp, the League, and nothing else, teams, well the top teams, don't see that as much of a succesful season, now maybe that's what Chelsea and Arsenal thought of the Cup.
But whatever about in the amateur sport, it's not in the door, out the door in 5 seconds if you fail. And when you consider that a lot more is riding on it, players working 9-5 jobs, all that sacrifice, all pined on the hope of winning 2 tropheys.
But football? If you're a top manager of a club with any hope of success and you don't live up to expectations, then God help ya because you'll never last.
We need to reign in our expectations, Wenger said that this comp the other night meant nothing, that it was for the young lads. And I'm sure Man U probably have that view as well, with eyes on the real prize, and have a more realisitic chance of winning either than Arsenal imo. Chelsea made the same mistake of not respecting the comp, the prem is their real priority. And at the end of the day we've got to ask ourselves what our priorities really are.
Are they to win something like the Carling Cup, or are they to finish in the top 4.
And can we afford to concentrate on one. Man U aren't, the other 2 weren't either.
It'd be great for us to win it because we haven't won anything in a long time. But we need to get our priorities right.
But we wont, instead we'll be demanding Hughes to be sacked if we loose to Chelsea and the same applies against Man U. We should be able to expect that we might just loose to the teams, and we should be able to process that and try and build from it, but we wont. Instead we demand immediate success, and without it, well it's just not good enough in some fans eyes.
So we need to ask ourselves what we want from this season, because as much as we want it, we can't have it all, and to be fair, it seems we'll be lucky to achieve either. I know we're shooting high this season, but we need to be realistic.
In GAA, it's amateur, and you've got teams that have high expectation every season, and this isn't because we're able to buy in new players, it's not like that, you're stuck with what players play in the clubs in your county, and the best are picked to represent the county. But the good teams have excellent history and nearly always have a very succesful underage system.
Because football is so competitive, we pay no attention to our young players, they're never really ours, they're a few hopeful kids who, 1 of 4 might end up playing for the club. Because of the demand for success now, we've little or no time to test these boys out.
In GAA, even in rugby, we've meaningful underage system. In GAA we've minor teams, and then the U21 teams, and then senior. Players are able to develop in there, and with their clubs. Because of the demand for success now in the Premiership we give no time to the youth, and just bring in all ready developed talent from across the water. In Cork hurling, this legend of the game, he wrote his bio, saying how he first heard of these twins, when they were 14 years old playing with their club, they're now 2 massive players that the team cannot live without. They are a massive part of the engine and why the team has been so succesful. We see players, we have our players develop, well we try to do so. And it leads to succesful teams.
Players are given chances and managers are given chances as well. The start of the season, the very first competition is where nearly always the kids are given a go, and managers try out tactics, and it's build on from there on in. Winning that comp doesn't really mean much in comparison to the teams who have their eye on the comp that follows. What follows is in their view much more important, and the one after that, even more so. The success of a season is seen by top teams whether you're there playing in the final and winning that cup in September. If not, it's been, in the cruel light of day, a failure. If you win that first comp, the League, and nothing else, teams, well the top teams, don't see that as much of a succesful season, now maybe that's what Chelsea and Arsenal thought of the Cup.
But whatever about in the amateur sport, it's not in the door, out the door in 5 seconds if you fail. And when you consider that a lot more is riding on it, players working 9-5 jobs, all that sacrifice, all pined on the hope of winning 2 tropheys.
But football? If you're a top manager of a club with any hope of success and you don't live up to expectations, then God help ya because you'll never last.
We need to reign in our expectations, Wenger said that this comp the other night meant nothing, that it was for the young lads. And I'm sure Man U probably have that view as well, with eyes on the real prize, and have a more realisitic chance of winning either than Arsenal imo. Chelsea made the same mistake of not respecting the comp, the prem is their real priority. And at the end of the day we've got to ask ourselves what our priorities really are.
Are they to win something like the Carling Cup, or are they to finish in the top 4.
And can we afford to concentrate on one. Man U aren't, the other 2 weren't either.
It'd be great for us to win it because we haven't won anything in a long time. But we need to get our priorities right.
But we wont, instead we'll be demanding Hughes to be sacked if we loose to Chelsea and the same applies against Man U. We should be able to expect that we might just loose to the teams, and we should be able to process that and try and build from it, but we wont. Instead we demand immediate success, and without it, well it's just not good enough in some fans eyes.
So we need to ask ourselves what we want from this season, because as much as we want it, we can't have it all, and to be fair, it seems we'll be lucky to achieve either. I know we're shooting high this season, but we need to be realistic.
sam221985
Well-Known Member
whalley ranger said:Well said mate! (You can stop pointing that sword at me now) I think most of the arrogance comes from our younger supporters tbh.Damocles said:It's like looking in to the future.
Despite what you may think, most of our fans will turn out like this guy. Look at United fans, their expectations are to win everything every year and don't give a moment's thought to FERGIE OUT banners if they don't.
This is because the fans had an expectation and the club failed to meet it.
Chelsea fans have forgotten their history as a top mid table club, and are now believing themselves capable of winning every trophy, and anything less is a failure. Again, a failure to meet the expectation that the fans sets.
It's already started here. A vast majority of this forum is already spouting HUGHES OUT because we are a few points off of 4th and in the Semi's of a Cup. Think about that, it's City, a few points off of 4th, in the semis. Forget everything else and concentrate your minds on that. We're aren't looking at relegation or mid table mediocrity for once. Three years ago, I would have cut my dick off to be in this position, yet most of you still whinge about it.
This is why all clubs hate us. It isn't jealousy, it's for the exact reason why everybody is slagging this guy. "How the fuck can THEY complain?", "What gives THEM the right to trophies all of a sudden?", "They have forgotten when they were shit, arrogant bastards".
We are no better than Chelsea fans, and worse than rags. Rags actually have achievement to back up arrogance, we have money and potential, which in realistic terms boils down to fuck all.
I guarantee that the Hughes Out will start if we fail to beat Chelsea. Just read them words back to yourself and realise how fucking ridiculous this all is.
Don't think even they have an excuse, there are few young supporters young enough to only remember us playing in the premiership, and even in those season we've been mediocre to poor in the premiershp!
New York City Diesel
Active Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 34
Damocles said:Also, so what if we have spent £2m or £200m? Do you really believe that that makes any difference to how the team should perform?
that's the daftest thing i've read in ages.
New York City Diesel said:Damocles said:Also, so what if we have spent £2m or £200m? Do you really believe that that makes any difference to how the team should perform?
that's the daftest thing i've read in ages.
So, you believe that money somehow makes players good?
And if Hull were to spend £500m on a pairing of Heskey and Samaras, then they seriously need to be looking at the title?
Money doesn't matter a damn bit in football, it's the team that goes on the pitch. I've got about a billion examples for this:
If the world were this clean cut, Bolton could never beat Chelsea.
Veron - he was one of the world's best players, went to the swamp, became shit, left and became one of the world's best players again.
Defoe is the leading goalscorer in the league and cost half of what Rooney did, who is behind him.
Hull were in the top four this time last year.
Our greatest player in the last twenty years, is a Bermudan who cost 1/15th of Anelka.
Robbie Fowler cost more than Joe Cole, despite moving at the same time.
I could do this all day, but you get the point. Money buys you players which you believe will fill a certain role for your team, to a certain standard. Whether or not they are any good has no bearing on the transfer fee, that comes from how highly they are rated by the selling club.
Oh, Samaras cost about the same as Given too, IIRC. Oh, and Roque Santa Cruz + Jo = Robinho.
Damocles said:New York City Diesel said:that's the daftest thing i've read in ages.
So, you believe that money somehow makes players good?
And if Hull were to spend £500m on a pairing of Heskey and Samaras, then they seriously need to be looking at the title?
Money doesn't matter a damn bit in football, it's the team that goes on the pitch. I've got about a billion examples for this:
So what was it that suddenly changed chelsea from being half decent to premier league champions, was it money a proven manager or possibly both?
Unknown_Genius
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 6 Jan 2009
- Messages
- 5,840
Damocles said:wayne71 said:Some fans simply want a proven manager who has won things, is that to much to ask given our new financial status?
Despite you saying we are only a few points from 4th look at how far we actually are from the top team, we are 14 points away from the top and 10 away from a relegation spot. We could quite easily be midtable this time next week and given the money we've spent some of us dont think thats acceptable.
Yes it is.
Top four teams and top European clubs take years and years of building, getting a bunch of players together and growing a team, investing in youth, getting the training facilities up to scratch, getting the best staff in, etc. Sorting out the club as a whole is a huge job which Cooke and Hughes have undertaken.
Expecting us to show up, throw a bit of cash around and instantly qualify for the CL is dumb. Shouting about sacking the manager if this doesn't happen is even dumber.
This is not Football Manager, unfortunately the real world doesn't work this way. Chelsea came in to money, threw it around and finished second. That's two or three places above what they finished the season before which if we were to follow suit, would leave us seventh.
It's also shitting all over the efforts of other teams. Redknapp has spent heavily at Spurs, a club that had continued investment for many years, and bought the majority of his team from his old club, and players he had worked with before.
Villa have been building a side under O'Neill for many years.
Liverpool have a top manager, a club with a large history and a well gelled team.
Arsenal have a system of development through which they have brought many a player through and their team has played together for many years. They also have a top tactician in Wenger.
I shouldn't need to mention the building work that has gone on at Chelsea and United.
Why you believe we deserve to finish above any of these teams because we've had a bit of investment, is beyond me.
Also, so what if we have spent £2m or £200m? Do you really believe that that makes any difference to how the team should perform?
If Bolton bought Lionel Messi for £300m, do you think they should then win the league?
Possibly the best post I have read for a long time on here.