City documentary 1981.

[lancs blue]

Well the "fan power" back then eventually brought in Franny Lee who did far more damage to City than Swales. Shows what us fans know.

Speak for yourself. What do you know? On what basis do you make this statement?

Swales reign took us took us from a top club to the brink of oblivion. The damage was hidden in the accounts where we had sold the silver and were robbing Peter to pay Paul so could barely function as a football club. There was no investment and no money. Anyone who believes Swales spent all the money trying to catch United when we were ahead when he took over, has a strange logic.

The 1981 documentary shows Manchester City to be run by a bunch of small time, petty business men. Swales and his cronies ran it for their own ends. They won the lottery and used City as their plaything till it was broke with nothing left. Everything about him was a chancer and gambler full of empty bravado. Did Swales not sack Mercer and Book, at the time when they were two of our most succesful managers? Did he not transfer our top goalscorer who had led us to success because he spoke out against Swales. Please explain what Peter Swales achieved for City and what good was his legacy?

Was it not Swales who as Chairman of the England Selection Commitee oversaw Don Revie appointed England manager over Brian Clough? I think his explanation was that it was his job to tell the manager what to do not the other way around as Clough would have it. England were in decline under his stewardship. Revie didnt take long to jump ship.

Francis Lee took over a sinking ship. His pockets were not deep enough, he did make bad decisions, leading to us to drop to division 3. But unlike Swales, he stepped down so the Club could move forward again under Bernstein then Wardle. Lee can claim he helped resurect our youth policy and it was his vision and legacy that saw us move to the CoMS, which has grown into the Etihad.

Manchester City Football Club was lucky to survive Peter Swales. To the end he was looking after his own interests. We could have easily gone the same way as Rangers in Scotland. Lee, Wardle and Makin and Shinawatra all sought to turn the Club round and make a profit. It took the wealth of Sheikh Mansour and strong management with a clear vision to finally undo the damage done by Peter Swales and realise the potential of City.

Spot on. Also, crucially Lee had to find £13m to build a new Kippax stand after the FA refused to give City dispensation to keep the terracing.

 

[Gary James]

Swales always gets stick and rightly so because he was an incompetent egotist who nearly destroyed our club but that spineless board of directors are equally culpable in my opinion, Swales and that lot should never have been allowed to ever return to City on freebies post Swales.

And some became Honorary Presidents an honour that neither Mercer or Allison was ever offered (even though Swales claimed in AGMs year after year in the 1980s that they were in discussion with the Mercers about Joe being offered that role - he never was, that was a lie!). Many of those directors also were the ones who launched the takeover in 1970 - when City were at the heights of their powers. By the time Lee took over City was in financial ruin and dying. Lee made mistakes of course (mostly connected with Alan Ball and the playing squad) but off the pitch he did a great deal to rectify the Swales & supporting directors' financial mess and deals.

Amazingly, some of Swales' old supporters switched and became Lee's (though I don't think they actually supported Lee in the long run). Swales was upset by this when I interviewed him shortly before his death.

A very murky world and this City documentary and others shows what we actually had. Frightening to think that the club ever managed to come back up after relegation in 1983 with some of these guys on board.

 

[BrianW]

Maybe we really are God's own club, because it's a real miracle we survived, and didn't end up like Bradford PA. I suggest the main factor that saved us was in fact the fans, that there were always around 30,000 willing to keep going.

 

[Bill]

Maybe we really are God's own club, because it's a real miracle we survived, and didn't end up like Bradford PA. I suggest the main factor that saved us was in fact the fans, that there were always around 30,000 willing to keep going.

manchester city would always survive over the likes of bradford park avenue.

 

[crmcfc]

Well the "fan power" back then eventually brought in Franny Lee who did far more damage to City than Swales. Shows what us fans know.

Speak for yourself. What do you know? On what basis do you make this statement?

Swales reign took us took us from a top club to the brink of oblivion. The damage was hidden in the accounts where we had sold the silver and were robbing Peter to pay Paul so could barely function as a football club. There was no investment and no money. Anyone who believes Swales spent all the money trying to catch United when we were ahead when he took over, has a strange logic.

The 1981 documentary shows Manchester City to be run by a bunch of small time, petty business men. Swales and his cronies ran it for their own ends. They won the lottery and used City as their plaything till it was broke with nothing left. Everything about him was a chancer and gambler full of empty bravado. Did Swales not sack Mercer and Book, at the time when they were two of our most succesful managers? Did he not transfer our top goalscorer who had led us to success because he spoke out against Swales. Please explain what Peter Swales achieved for City and what good was his legacy?

Was it not Swales who as Chairman of the England Selection Commitee oversaw Don Revie appointed England manager over Brian Clough? I think his explanation was that it was his job to tell the manager what to do not the other way around as Clough would have it. England were in decline under his stewardship. Revie didnt take long to jump ship.

Francis Lee took over a sinking ship. His pockets were not deep enough, he did make bad decisions, leading to us to drop to division 3. But unlike Swales, he stepped down so the Club could move forward again under Bernstein then Wardle. Lee can claim he helped resurect our youth policy and it was his vision and legacy that saw us move to the CoMS, which has grown into the Etihad.

Manchester City Football Club was lucky to survive Peter Swales. To the end he was looking after his own interests. We could have easily gone the same way as Rangers in Scotland. Lee, Wardle and Makin and Shinawatra all sought to turn the Club round and make a profit. It took the wealth of Sheikh Mansour and strong management with a clear vision to finally undo the damage done by Peter Swales and realise the potential of City.

Spot on. Also, crucially Lee had to find £13m to build a new Kippax stand after the FA refused to give City dispensation to keep the terracing.

Just think you are both forgetting that was 1981 not 2015, how do you think the majority of football clubs operated then?

Very naïve if you think they were the well drilled PR machines most clubs are today.

I've not said Swales left a good legacy but equally the club was closer to going out of business when Lee left. To try and link Lee right through Sheik Mansour taking over the club is stretching it a bit!! To say Lees vision took us to the Etihad...really more like Ewen Fields if he had stayed.

Lee did not step down he was over thrown before he finished us off, we would have gone bankrupt if he had stayed another week. Lee rode in on a manifesto to the fans of "a blank cheque book" to sign whoever we wanted, then brought us Alan Ball and Gerry Creaney. Then sat in Barbados as we folded like a deck of cards, I could go on and on.

Look neither did us much good but to make out Lee was a force for good Swales was a force for evil is trying to re-write history. Lee has got away with a lot of stuff because some fans remember what he did as a player now rather than his tenure as chairman.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

History proves that Allison's second period at Maine Road was a major catalyst for the trauma that followed.

Funny because I remember the two games when he returned to Maine Road as Manager of Crystal Palace.

On the last day of the 72-73 season he was booed by the Maine Road faithful before a 3-2 defeat. (This was the first time I ever saw City lose and I was sat at the back of the Main Stand)

Eight years later I was stood on the Kippax as the majority of City fans chanted his name, (myself included)

All very strange, but let's not pretend that it didn't happen.

 

[spiny]

Just think you are both forgetting that was 1981 not 2015, how do you think the majority of football clubs operated then?

Very naïve if you think they were the well drilled PR machines most clubs are today.

I've not said Swales left a good legacy but equally the club was closer to going out of business when Lee left. To try and link Lee right through Sheik Mansour taking over the club is stretching it a bit!! To say Lees vision took us to the Etihad...really more like Ewen Fields if he had stayed.

Lee did not step down he was over thrown before he finished us off, we would have gone bankrupt if he had stayed another week. Lee rode in on a manifesto to the fans of "a blank cheque book" to sign whoever we wanted, then brought us Alan Ball and Gerry Creaney. Then sat in Barbados as we folded like a deck of cards, I could go on and on.

Look neither did us much good but to make out Lee was a force for good Swales was a force for evil is trying to re-write history. Lee has got away with a lot of stuff because some fans remember what he did as a player now rather than his tenure as chairman.

If only City was run like it was 1981. Instead Swales was stuck in the 1950’s with a style of management and lack of investment that saw unrest and the demise of swathes of British industry.

All the evidence points to Manchester City FC being run into the ground under Swales. During more than 20 years, ground improvements he instigated amounted to a new roof on the main stand plus recladding the exterior in painted steel and to build the underwhelming Umbro Stand. Hardly keeping up let alone investing for the future.

In the words of a poster respected for his insights into City finances. (I hope he doesnt mind)
“by Prestwich_Blue
Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:26 am
Peter Swales would have loved FFP as he would have seen it as keeping costs down and making more money for himself, while giving him an excuse not to put money in.“


I am not an accountant but I do know how businesses run. Please explain "Lee did not step down he was over thrown before he finished us off, we would have gone bankrupt". And with Swales?

When Lee took over, the cupboard was bare. Revenues were insufficient and had to increase in order to survive. Who knows what else was hidden in the accounts? Big investments had to be made, including building the new Kippax. This took priority over the playing side.

When Manchester was putting together the bid to host the Commonwealth Games, the opportunity to move to CoMS as a tenant was pursued by Lee with Barlow. It was a lifeline that would enable City to get a new ground with minimal capital investment compared with developing Maine Road and give a huge boost to potential revenue.

How can you fail to see the link to the Etihad? Are you aware of the “manifesto“ on which Peter Swales was appointed Chairman? No mention of his quotes or the circumstances. Why be selective?

My issue with your posts is the lack of knowledge and prejudice. Your comparison of the tenure between Swales and Lee is unsupported, disproportionate and without context so your sensational comments have no foundation. Perhaps you could enlighten us? Maybe you do not go back far enough? Your criticism of Francis Lee may be justified in isolation except in a comparison I cannot think of a single positive contribution of consequence made by Peter Swales during his tenure. Plenty of negatives and lots of bravado and gestures with little substance. It is not a matter of rewriting history but of stating fact.

Myself and others have explained why we disagree with you. By all means express your opinions but you cannot be taken seriously when you fail to substantiate them and reply by making even more contentious claims.


p.s. City did get to play at Ewan Fields. At least it was not at Boundary Park from a ground share or merger with Oldham Athletic as seemed more probable at the time.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Well the "fan power" back then eventually brought in Franny Lee who did far more damage to City than Swales. Shows what us fans know.

Speak for yourself. What do you know? On what basis do you make this statement?

Swales reign took us took us from a top club to the brink of oblivion. The damage was hidden in the accounts where we had sold the silver and were robbing Peter to pay Paul so could barely function as a football club. There was no investment and no money. Anyone who believes Swales spent all the money trying to catch United when we were ahead when he took over, has a strange logic.

The 1981 documentary shows Manchester City to be run by a bunch of small time, petty business men. Swales and his cronies ran it for their own ends. They won the lottery and used City as their plaything till it was broke with nothing left. Everything about him was a chancer and gambler full of empty bravado. Did Swales not sack Mercer and Book, at the time when they were two of our most succesful managers? Did he not transfer our top goalscorer who had led us to success because he spoke out against Swales. Please explain what Peter Swales achieved for City and what good was his legacy?

Was it not Swales who as Chairman of the England Selection Commitee oversaw Don Revie appointed England manager over Brian Clough? I think his explanation was that it was his job to tell the manager what to do not the other way around as Clough would have it. England were in decline under his stewardship. Revie didnt take long to jump ship.

Francis Lee took over a sinking ship. His pockets were not deep enough, he did make bad decisions, leading to us to drop to division 3. But unlike Swales, he stepped down so the Club could move forward again under Bernstein then Wardle. Lee can claim he helped resurect our youth policy and it was his vision and legacy that saw us move to the CoMS, which has grown into the Etihad.

Manchester City Football Club was lucky to survive Peter Swales. To the end he was looking after his own interests. We could have easily gone the same way as Rangers in Scotland. Lee, Wardle and Makin and Shinawatra all sought to turn the Club round and make a profit. It took the wealth of Sheikh Mansour and strong management with a clear vision to finally undo the damage done by Peter Swales and realise the potential of City.

Totally agree with all that spiny but did Swales actually sack Mercer?

 

[Tbilisi]

History proves that Allison's second period at Maine Road was a major catalyst for the trauma that followed.

Funny because I remember the two games when he returned to Maine Road as Manager of Crystal Palace.

On the last day of the 72-73 season he was booed by the Maine Road faithful before a 3-2 defeat. (This was the first time I ever saw City lose and I was sat at the back of the Main Stand)

Eight years later I was stood on the Kippax as the majority of City fans chanted his name, (myself included)

All very strange, but let's not pretend that it didn't happen.

I was at that game stood at windy corner with my Dad...a guy just in front of us ran on the pitch,took the ball and scored....pity he was a spectator.

 

[spiny]

[
Totally agree with all that spiny but did Swales actually sack Mercer?

In truth. I do not know.

I am not priviledged to such knowledge. I never had any contact with Swales or Lee nor have had any connection with City beyond being a supporter of many years, starting to watch at the scoreboard end.

In the 1980's I did have dealings and contacts with managers, owners and sponsors of other First Division Clubs on which to base my comparison, including some of the more successful of the period.

Maine Road had fallen well behind most grounds as a venue by this time.