City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I find this process whereby Arsenal or Liverpool can appeal against our punishment very bizarre. If we accept our punishment and they appeal, would we have undermined our position by accepting guilt? And if you were in their position would you appeal knowing that the eventual consequence could be a court case leading to the abolition of FFP?

They can't challenge if we accept.

but

Now that City have failed FFP, a “directly affected party” has 10 days to appeal against any attempt by the club to cut a deal with Uefa to reduce their sanction of a likely Champions League ban. City would then be exposed to a Uefa tribunal.

Sanction.
Settlement/Plea Bargain.
Spot the difference.
As for the second (bold) part that's total and utter bollocks.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

League title is in our own hands. Yep. Try and distract us, Yep.
Watch the media witch hunt now against us. Probably will get to the stage where USA is allowed to invade Manchester to get rid of our evil regime here.
If I was City I would be watching any allegations from the gutter press for half truths, inaccurate reporting and take strong action against such reports.
Just ignore all the press until the facts come out. I have 100% faith in our owners and they know what they are doing and what they will do if needed

Players dont care about that side of the game, Yep.
We have failed thats already known as such just not how. As long as the press right we believe instead of lies there is no pace for city to go with "taking action" they have been very clever since we took a hardline with them printing retractions a few seasons back

 

[Moriati]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Don't underestimate the scheming role that Karl-Heinz Rummenigge has played in this corrupt fiasco. He's pressing UEFA to impose a transfer ban. History proves he normally gets his way with his puppets at UEFA.

 

[oakiecokie]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Manchester City appeared on Monday night to have paid the price for tabling obscure income figures which suggested they had earned more than £46m for selling their services, as it emerged Uefa had deemed the club to be in breach of Financial Fair Play rules.

City had initially been confident of passing the FFP test but Uefa has been sceptical of the way that City reduced their financial losses by claiming they had earned £24.5m from the sale of their own players’ image rights to a company they have never been willing publicly to name.

Such a financial arrangement has never been attempted by a football club before. City claimed an additional £22.45m income, in their latest annual financial results, by stating they were selling their intellectual property to “related parties”, including City’s American and Australian franchises and the club’s own women’s team.

Those two figures enabled City to scrape breaking even within the FFP regime. But it emerged last night that Uefa’s club financial control board has now made offers to City and Paris Saint-Germain, whom it deems in breach of the rules. If Uefa finds both those income figures void, City could be in breach to the tune of more than £40m. The club was not available for comment last night.

City are one of fewer than 20 clubs in breach. The club can either accept the penalty Uefa is proposing, under a plea bargaining system or try to negotiate a lesser punishment, ahead of the control board meeting on Thursday and Friday. The penalty could range from a reprimand or a fine up to restrictions on the squad for European competition next season.

Now that City have failed FFP, a “directly affected party” has 10 days to appeal against any attempt by the club to cut a deal with Uefa to reduce their sanction of a likely Champions League ban. City would then be exposed to a Uefa tribunal.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/blow-for-manchester-city-as-uefa-finds-club-have-broken-financial-fair-play-rules-9299476.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 99476.html</a>

If this is the case,then maybe we`re not as smart as we think we are and someone within the Club has dropped a right bollock !!!

 

[Chippy_boy]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Allegedly, they weren't in European competition in 11/12 along with Monaco so neither face FFPR this year, although they will next year. Since there's no mention of that in their own legislation, if true it'll be a minefield for UEFA if ourselves or PSG challenge a sanction.

It would be the end of FFPR, I am certain of it. It breaches all sorts of anti-competitive EU legislation I have no doubt.

Bizarrely though, we don't want that either, so that really is our weapon of last resort. Whereas we do have a very rich owner, no-one is keen on spending more money on players and wages that he would otherwise have to. FFPR is actually a desirable thing for club owners since it acts as a downward pressure on costs, which is why most of the PL clubs were in favour of introducing something similar.

So we are probably broadly in favour of it, so long as we can negotiate our way through this rather tricky interim period whilst we transition from local no hopers to global super brand :-)

The whole FFP process just highlights the serious flaws in Football regulation. UEFA have been pushed into this via the paranoia of the old G14 clubs terrified that 'new money' might destroy their cosy cartel. None of the G14 clubs want to stop spending - they just don't want anyone else to be allowed to. United were the ones that pushed for an equivalent regime in the Premier League - but one bad season and they want to outspend everyone to buy their way back to the top - how does that square with their arguments 12 months ago. FFP is seriously bad for Football - it limits and deters Equity investment which is a joke but it could discourage sponsorship if UEFA are going to start ruling that certain deals are illegal. I'm remain optimistic that the whole process will collapse and will prove to be Napoleon's Waterloo (200th anniversary next year!) the thought of that idiot at FIFA is too much to stomach.

I agree with all of that.

The idea of making football fairer is an admirable one, as is the desire to stop clubs doing irresponsible things that might lead to their going bust. But the way it has been implemented is so bent, it's beyond belief. What staggers me really is that it should be so transparently bent and so obviously drawn up to favour the established big clubs. Surely they could have come up with something not quite so obviously bent??!!

Anyway, the way it's been implemented demonstrates it is clearly NOTHING to do with a desire to make football more fair. Which to honest is not at all surprising. If the sports governing bodies were actually interested in fairness that then Sep Blatter would not be running FIFA and Michel Platini (I find it hard to say his name without saying "that utter cock Michel Platini") would not be running UEFA.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

There is absolutely no problem, just more hysteria and guesswork from certain people who have pinned their entire hopes on City going back to whence they came.

There's now an excitability around the whole conclusion process, based on a known timeline, from those with a platform to mask what is simply a tribal club leaning, coupled with a lack of intelligence and understanding.

Platini's comments, last week, although later distanced from, betray a truer sense of the impending landscape.

Irrespective of the narrative, we really couldn't be in safer hands, with the resources to back up whatever stance we wish to move forward with.

Personally, although we have paid discreet lip service to this wolf in sheep's clothing, I suspect our axe has been sharpened for every eventuality.

 

[George Hannah]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Don't underestimate the scheming role that Karl-Heinz Rummenigge has played in this corrupt fiasco. He's pressing UEFA to impose a transfer ban. History proves he normally gets his way with his puppets at UEFA.

Please give us the link Moriati - most of the posters on here don't seem to realize that somebody in their direct family probably gave their life trying to stop the Germans doing what they are doing now.

 

[Bozzie]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

How can it be considered 'fair' for a team like Liverpool, who has not had to comply with FFP regulations, to be allowed to complain about a club that has. Ok, if Arsenal were to have their say at least they've been subject to the same restrictions, but not Liverpool.

 

[George Hannah]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

There is absolutely no problem, just more hysteria and guesswork from certain people who have pinned their entire hopes on City going back to whence they came.
There's now an excitability around the whole conclusion process, based on a known timeline, from those with a platform to mask what is simply a tribal club leaning, coupled with a lack of intelligence and understanding.
Platini's comments, last week, although later distanced from, betray a truer sense of the impending landscape.
Irrespective of the narrative, we really couldn't be in safer hands, with the resources to back up whatever stance we wish to move forward with.
Personally, although we have paid discreet lip service to this wolf in sheep's clothing, I suspect our axe has been sharpened for every eventuality.

well that's a relief - glass of Vichy water Tolm?

 

[Jacks77]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Well all this IP sale thing for a significant amount seemed a bit tricky for me when I read it, I mean they came up with it just because the FPP possibly. I dont know how can you decide the right price of it, its hard to argue from both sides, lets say we had an income of 25m because New York FC hand some brand things similar to City, has the scouting datebase etc, does it really worth 25m, or exactly 25m? Couldnt it be 100 or 150m? Or only 5m?
To me it seems Mansour did put money from his left pocket to his right. And we tried to find an aount that doesnt seem extreme but probably more than what these things really worth.

Other thing is some people waiting that we will go against Uefa and Mansour sends his best lawyers at PLatini, I dont think thats gonna happen, they dont want even more bad publicity, what he wants is City being successful on and off the pitch. Especially being successful i the CL level thats where the big money is, and the big publicity, probably thats where the most fans come from as the goal is clearly build a lot bigger global fan base. CL helps that not LEague Cup and FA Cup, its pretty clear.

So we want to be in CL and not in some friendly super league with PSG. We want to play against Real/Barca/Bayern and probably beat them as well soon or get to semi finals at least a few times.

Of course all this FFP surely did hold us back some way, I am not sure we wouldnt have made bigger losses last two years if we wont have to deal with FFP.

And it will hold us back in the future too, so it reaches its big goal that no more owners can come in and turn Parma/Stoke/Osasuna into rivals their top teams in 1-2 years. Also rich owners cant spend as much as they want and they have to put huge energy into improving incomes.

Our incomes look good but from last accounts our incomes improved to the accounts before but much of it was down to these IP selling things and that cant be done from year to year probably was a one off thing. Without that our incomes did not really improve from 11-12 season to 12-13. (It was less successful on the pitch as well...)
We got some new sponsors but dont think these are paying significant amounts. Maybe only the Nike deal but that is even not huge 12m instead of umbro's 6m/year. (Warrior paying some 25m to Pool, United looking to get crazy 60m from Nike per year, Puma also around 25-30m for Arsenal per year.)

Soriano and his team will look at increasing incomes for sure its not that easy tho. Certainly new PL deal helps but it helps all English teams the same.
What we really need to improve is commercial and matchday incomes.

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

How can it be considered 'fair' for a team like Liverpool, who has not had to comply with FFP regulations, to be allowed to complain about a club that has. Ok, if Arsenal were to have their say at least they've been subject to the same restrictions, but not Liverpool.

Exactly, Liverpool wouldn't be able to complain even if they finished fifth, as then we would challenge the validity if their being exempt from the regulations, we'd win and they would fail at the first hurdle (debt not being converted to equity by the deadline for the accounts being submitted).

-- Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:39 am --

Well all this IP sale thing for a significant amount seemed a bit tricky for me when I read it, I mean they came up with it just because the FPP possibly. I dont know how can you decide the right price of it, its hard to argue from both sides, lets say we had an income of 25m because New York FC hand some brand things similar to City, has the scouting datebase etc, does it really worth 25m, or exactly 25m? Couldnt it be 100 or 150m? Or only 5m?
To me it seems Mansour did put money from his left pocket to his right. And we tried to find an aount that doesnt seem extreme but probably more than what these things really worth.

Other thing is some people waiting that we will go against Uefa and Mansour sends his best lawyers at PLatini, I dont think thats gonna happen, they dont want even more bad publicity, what he wants is City being successful on and off the pitch. Especially being successful i the CL level thats where the big money is, and the big publicity, probably thats where the most fans come from as the goal is clearly build a lot bigger global fan base. CL helps that not LEague Cup and FA Cup, its pretty clear.

So we want to be in CL and not in some friendly super league with PSG. We want to play against Real/Barca/Bayern and probably beat them as well soon or get to semi finals at least a few times.

Of course all this FFP surely did hold us back some way, I am not sure we wouldnt have made bigger losses last two years if we wont have to deal with FFP.

And it will hold us back in the future too, so it reaches its big goal that no more owners can come in and turn Parma/Stoke/Osasuna into rivals their top teams in 1-2 years. Also rich owners cant spend as much as they want and they have to put huge energy into improving incomes.

Our incomes look good but from last accounts our incomes improved to the accounts before but much of it was down to these IP selling things and that cant be done from year to year probably was a one off thing. Without that our incomes did not really improve from 11-12 season to 12-13. (It was less successful on the pitch as well...)
We got some new sponsors but dont think these are paying significant amounts. Maybe only the Nike deal but that is even not huge 12m instead of umbro's 6m/year. (Warrior paying some 25m to Pool, United looking to get crazy 60m from Nike per year, Puma also around 25-30m for Arsenal per year.)

Soriano and his team will look at increasing incomes for sure its not that easy tho. Certainly new PL deal helps but it helps all English teams the same.
What we really need to improve is commercial and matchday incomes.

Our incomes have improved massively anyway and the IP thing isn't as black and white as that, if we were giving any non-related team access to scouting, coaching and branding they'd pay big money for it so the 'Fair market value' would in reality be quite high.<br /><br />-- Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:40 am --<br /><br />

The not in Europe line so can't be touched is a worry....just thinking of how the rags could spend if they had any money to start with but other teams who drop out ie AC will have a field day.

AC Milan made losses in 11/12 and 12/13 and 13/14 so will have to undergo FFPR if they qualify for Europe next year.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I went Ltd company a couple years back (wish I had done it years ago).

I was able to store £20,000 in goodwill for selling my 'expertise' to my own company. For the next ten years £2k comes off my corporation tax bill.

For the record, I am not a £270m company.

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

There is absolutely no problem, just more hysteria and guesswork from certain people who have pinned their entire hopes on City going back to whence they came.

There's now an excitability around the whole conclusion process, based on a known timeline, from those with a platform to mask what is simply a tribal club leaning, coupled with a lack of intelligence and understanding.

Platini's comments, last week, although later distanced from, betray a truer sense of the impending landscape.

Irrespective of the narrative, we really couldn't be in safer hands, with the resources to back up whatever stance we wish to move forward with.

Personally, although we have paid discreet lip service to this wolf in sheep's clothing, I suspect our axe has been sharpened for every eventuality.

Thank you Tolmie, this is exactly what I've been saying all morning. It's more bullshit from the same people who gave us such gems as "Denis Suarez on £75,000 p/w", "Mancini sat in stands for Hughes last game", "City to be given lifetime ban from UEFA competition" and "Every decent player at City signing for Madrid and Barca for Negligible transfer fees every single transfer window"

 

[George Hannah]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

There is absolutely no problem, just more hysteria and guesswork from certain people who have pinned their entire hopes on City going back to whence they came.

There's now an excitability around the whole conclusion process, based on a known timeline, from those with a platform to mask what is simply a tribal club leaning, coupled with a lack of intelligence and understanding.

Platini's comments, last week, although later distanced from, betray a truer sense of the impending landscape.

Irrespective of the narrative, we really couldn't be in safer hands, with the resources to back up whatever stance we wish to move forward with.

Personally, although we have paid discreet lip service to this wolf in sheep's clothing, I suspect our axe has been sharpened for every eventuality.

Thank you Tolmie, this is exactly what I've been saying all morning. It's more bullshit from the same people who gave us such gems as "Denis Suarez on £75,000 p/w", "Mancini sat in stands for Hughes last game", "City to be given lifetime ban from UEFA competition" and "Every decent player at City signing for Madrid and Barca for Negligible transfer fees every single transfer window"

time you both woke up my friends

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I went Ltd company a couple years back (wish I had done it years ago).

I was able to store £20,000 in goodwill for selling my 'expertise' to my own company. For the next ten years £2k comes off my corporation tax bill.

For the record, I am not a £270m company.

In our case it's definitely income related to footballing matters as well which clears that part and as for fair market value? What would any club charge for access to their scouting databases and coaching information?<br /><br />-- Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:46 am --<br /><br />

There is absolutely no problem, just more hysteria and guesswork from certain people who have pinned their entire hopes on City going back to whence they came.

There's now an excitability around the whole conclusion process, based on a known timeline, from those with a platform to mask what is simply a tribal club leaning, coupled with a lack of intelligence and understanding.

Platini's comments, last week, although later distanced from, betray a truer sense of the impending landscape.

Irrespective of the narrative, we really couldn't be in safer hands, with the resources to back up whatever stance we wish to move forward with.

Personally, although we have paid discreet lip service to this wolf in sheep's clothing, I suspect our axe has been sharpened for every eventuality.

Thank you Tolmie, this is exactly what I've been saying all morning. It's more bullshit from the same people who gave us such gems as "Denis Suarez on £75,000 p/w", "Mancini sat in stands for Hughes last game", "City to be given lifetime ban from UEFA competition" and "Every decent player at City signing for Madrid and Barca for Negligible transfer fees every single transfer window"

time you both woke up my friends

Either you're on the wum mate or you're just being negative and pessimistic even beyond the bounds of normal blues.

 

[blueparrot]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

There is absolutely no problem, just more hysteria and guesswork from certain people who have pinned their entire hopes on City going back to whence they came.

There's now an excitability around the whole conclusion process, based on a known timeline, from those with a platform to mask what is simply a tribal club leaning, coupled with a lack of intelligence and understanding.

Platini's comments, last week, although later distanced from, betray a truer sense of the impending landscape.

Irrespective of the narrative, we really couldn't be in safer hands, with the resources to back up whatever stance we wish to move forward with.

Personally, although we have paid discreet lip service to this wolf in sheep's clothing, I suspect our axe has been sharpened for every eventuality.

Thank you Tolmie, this is exactly what I've been saying all morning. It's more bullshit from the same people who gave us such gems as "Denis Suarez on £75,000 p/w", "Mancini sat in stands for Hughes last game", "City to be given lifetime ban from UEFA competition" and "Every decent player at City signing for Madrid and Barca for Negligible transfer fees every single transfer window"

time you both woke up my friends

Non of these stories come with any quotes or even evidence we are in the 20, although I accept there is a probability we we are.We could be included for many reasons even if it is just a slap on the wrist for needing to use the pre 2010 get out. Who knows,not us and not these journalists, but stay calm, whatever the club will be on top of it.

 

[mcmanus]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Look we can all go round in circles but as I posted before trust those in charge at City nowadays.

We will have lawyers and accountants who assistants will have studied at Harvard or Yale.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Thank you Tolmie, this is exactly what I've been saying all morning. It's more bullshit from the same people who gave us such gems as "Denis Suarez on £75,000 p/w", "Mancini sat in stands for Hughes last game", "City to be given lifetime ban from UEFA competition" and "Every decent player at City signing for Madrid and Barca for Negligible transfer fees every single transfer window"

time you both woke up my friends

Non of these stories come with any quotes or even evidence we are in the 20, although I accept there is a probability we we are.We could be included for many reasons even if it is just a slap on the wrist for needing to use the pre 2010 get out. Who knows,not us and not these journalists, but stay calm, whatever the club will be on top of it.

Of course we will be one of the 20, the rules and subsequent closing of loopholes have been designed around ourselves and clubs like PSG.

But that's the point of these new stories, they are low percentage 'easy ones to write', the actual punishments being written about again have been speculated about for months, all the bases merely being covered.

The announcement is imminent. There is no inside track, otherwise the same reports would definitely have THE punishment.

20 clubs have failed, that is more than 25 per cent of the clubs investigated.

We failing FFPR is like 'George Best in drink shocker',

 

[welsh_andy]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

to all the moaners and whingers all i have to say is

 

[blueparrot]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

time you both woke up my friends

Non of these stories come with any quotes or even evidence we are in the 20, although I accept there is a probability we we are.We could be included for many reasons even if it is just a slap on the wrist for needing to use the pre 2010 get out. Who knows,not us and not these journalists, but stay calm, whatever the club will be on top of it.

Of course we will be one of the 20, the rules and subsequent closing of loopholes have been designed around ourselves and clubs like PSG.

But that's the point of these new stories, they are low percentage 'easy ones to write', the actual punishments being written about again have been speculated about for months, all the bases merely being covered.

The announcement is imminent. There is no inside track, otherwise the same reports would definitely have THE punishment.

20 clubs have failed, that is more than 25 per cent of the clubs investigated.

We failing FFPR is like 'George Best in drink shocker',

Or like ' journalist takes a wild guess makes a story and publishes shocker'