City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[dansyb]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Just a question to our ffp experts as this is above me.
Lets say the club break even in our next years accounts and we all think we've sailed through ffp then hand the books over to UEFA for them to asses.They pass them onto their accountants hinting they would like a fail.The accountants then go through the books and report they have disallowed this and that as it is not allowed under ffp also they have decided to reduce the level of so many sponsorship's as they are over market value so for ffp purposes our break even figure is turned into a loss and another fail under ffp and we end up with all this shit again next year.

The same accounts are used next year, with the addition of the ones for this year (2013/14) so that scenario is quite likely, unless we overturn the decision to disallow some revenue.

So they can punish us for losing the same amount of money in the same seasons more than once? How fucking bizarre. I cannot believe that if UEFA don't more or less cave in, that this won't end up in huge legal action. And they won't cave because the bullies in Stretford, Munich and North London won't let them. The main issue for me is, if we take these extortioners to court, can (or more importantly will) they ban us from Europe during any long drawn out action?

Thanks P B just get the feeling UEFA will find an excuse to fail us every year if we don't stop this shit now

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Have SSN not been reporting this morning that PSG have been or agreed a fine of 20 million euro? If that is all they'll suffer, surely these 'leaked reports' are nothing more than bullshit?

You're assuming that UEFA wouldn't be mental enough to give us a much tougher punishment than PSG. Clearly this has rapidly descended into the wild west in a blatant attempt to fuck us over, so nothing would surprise me, no matter how barmy.

 

[George Hannah]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I believe Martin Samuel was briefed by City last night that Paris have been fined just £20m, nothing else.
L'Equipe seem to be as guilty as the rest, in terms of speculating.
In turn, the Press Association lifted that article, which Sky and everybody else then chose to run with.
It would appear the blind are still leading the blind.

As self-proclaimed king of that country Tolmie be careful when you wink ;-)

 

[blueinsa]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

The more this unfolds the more you begin to think that the lot of them, UEFA and virtually every other club out there have decided to try and completely isolate us and fuck us over.

I'm still confident that we will be more than a match for the cunts regardless of how this plays out but fuck me it's getting dirty.

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I need some information about CAS. Its name suggests that it is simply a court of arbitration to find common ground for agreement between parties in dispute. Does this limit it to trying to find a level of fine and squad restrictions which City are prepared to accept? In other words, does it have to begin by accepting that these rules are actually consistent with the principles of European commercial law, or can it conclude that City have no case to answer because UEFA has no right to impose these regulations in the first place?

CAS are superior to UEFA and have jurisdiction over them. They can order UEFA to change rules/regulations, strike out/increase punishments etc etc, the only thing they can't do is apply criminal charges, only a sovereign court can do that.

It cannot however make a definitive finding that FFPR is/is not compliant with EU law, especially competition law. Only the ECJ can do that. In other words, we might win in the CAS with an argument that FFPR breaches competition law but lose in the ECJ, or we might lose on that point in the CAS but win in the ECJ.

Personally, I think unless the EU law arguments were absolutely clear cut the CAS would probably approach the matter on the basis that FFPR are not unlawful under EU law, unless and until the ECJ ruled otherwise. That said, where a national court is asked to resolve a difficult question of EU law it has the power to refer the EU law question to the ECJ for determination. I don't know if CAS has the same power, or whether the ECJ would accept a reference from CAS for a ruling. But if CAS can do that it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

If we were to take it to CAS, the points we would win on (if the leaks in the press were to turn out to be accurate) would be that UEFA haven't actually applied their own legislation properly, that they've handed out disproportionate punishments or that they're acting outside the powers available to a sporting body. All 3 of these would be available to them to make a judgement but acting as a Cartel is a criminal offence (the Articles 101+102 argument) so a direct challenge to the legality of FFP would always go to the ECJ.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I need some information about CAS. Its name suggests that it is simply a court of arbitration to find common ground for agreement between parties in dispute. Does this limit it to trying to find a level of fine and squad restrictions which City are prepared to accept? In other words, does it have to begin by accepting that these rules are actually consistent with the principles of European commercial law, or can it conclude that City have no case to answer because UEFA has no right to impose these regulations in the first place?

CAS are superior to UEFA and have jurisdiction over them. They can order UEFA to change rules/regulations, strike out/increase punishments etc etc, the only thing they can't do is apply criminal charges, only a sovereign court can do that.

It cannot however make a definitive finding that FFPR is/is not compliant with EU law, especially competition law. Only the ECJ can do that. In other words, we might win in the CAS with an argument that FFPR breaches competition law but lose in the ECJ, or we might lose on that point in the CAS but win in the ECJ.

Personally, I think unless the EU law arguments were absolutely clear cut the CAS would probably approach the matter on the basis that FFPR are not unlawful under EU law, unless and until the ECJ ruled otherwise. That said, where a national court is asked to resolve a difficult question of EU law it has the power to refer the EU law question to the ECJ for determination. I don't know if CAS has the same power, or whether the ECJ would accept a reference from CAS for a ruling. But if CAS can do that it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

I'm wary of taking a different view to you Chris but it's my understanding that CAS is a Swiss court effectively and operates under Swiss law. They aren't in the EU but CAS does comply with ECHR. The only right of appeal is to a Swiss Federal court and then only on the basis of process, rather than a point of law. So I doubt there would be any ability to refer cases to ECJ.

 

[schfc6]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

CORRUPTION ALERT.


PSG escape with £20m fine for breaching UEFA Financial Fair Play rules
UEFA are set to announce that PSG will only receive a £20million one-off fine for breaching FFP regulations
Manchester City face a £49million fine and sanctions that would cut their Champions League squad from 25 to 21

UEFA are set to further infuriate Manchester City by announcing that Paris Saint-Germain will face only a £20million one-off fine for breaching Financial Fair Play regulations.
City are already upset with European football's governing body over proposals to fine them £49m, payable in three instalments, and impose sanctions that would cut their Champions League squad cut from 25 to 21.

It was thought that big-spending PSG would face a similar 'settlement' following an investigation into their finances - in particular a £167m sponsorship deal with Qatar Tourist Authority.
However, Sportsmail can reveal that PSG, confirmed as French champions on Wednesday night, will face a significantly smaller fine.
The move will incense City's Abu Dhabi owners, who feel harshly treated after reducing their annual losses from £98m to £52m over the past two years.
City are believed to have until Friday to accept the settlement or appeal to a panel empowered to impose even harsher, non-negotiable sanctions, including possible Champions League exclusion.
It was unclear whether PSG would face similar Champions League squad cuts and imposition of a salary cap but coach Laurent Blanc admitted UEFA's action means his club 'won't be able to do everything it wants' in Europe next season.



Surely this is laughable? Surely we can simply negotiate a smaller fine and simply move on?

It does also show that pretty much no one, anywhere had any idea about what's going on.

I mean for fucks sake, no one even seems to know who these other clubs are.

I'm pretty much not concerned in anyway now. It's obvious just all posturing and chest thumping.

 

[@BluePhil8]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

The whole world will be scratching their heads if we receive a fine £30,000,000 more than what PSG get.

If this is true then I can only see it going down the court route.

I am actually staggered to be honest.

I always thought it was City that UEFA detested but this confirms the suspicion beyond doubt.

I maintain that PSG are not seen as a problem because they play in the French League so the old power clubs like Bayern, United, Liverpool and Madrid don't care about them. They hate us because we have broken up the cartel in England.

 

[GazC]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

What's been said by the media about the apparent exclusion of Zenit from any sanctions, their ownership model with Gazprom and sponsorship with Gazprom and UEFA's own commercial relationship with them? If anything.

 

[@BluePhil8]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

The more this unfolds the more you begin to think that the lot of them, UEFA and virtually every other club out there have decided to try and completely isolate us and fuck us over.

I'm still confident that we will be more than a match for the cunts regardless of how this plays out but fuck me it's getting dirty.

I agree. Sadly a lot of fans like to think people like Gill and Rummenigge have integrity but they truly are like pantomime villains, they only care about servicing their own clubs and maintaining the established elite.

This smacks of American congress. The power clubs lobbied for legislation to protect their own needs. UEFA even call it "financial fair play", like how the US calls all of it's unconstitutional laws things like "the patriot act" and the "freedom bill". It's all fucking bull shit.