City in the Champs League

Two things seem to me to be important to appreciate.

The first is that whilst our results are mediocre, we are nonetheless a very good team. Our opponents in the CL do not forget that, even if sometimes our fans do. That is why Roma and CSKA (and Dortmund, and Napoli) play the way they do against us - very organised in defence,look to keep us at arms length, hope to score on the break. Only once in four seasons have we been comprehensively outclassed, against Bayern last season. Even when we have lost we have been in the game.

Granted, our results do not reflect our ability. But that may be down to a number of things - some indiscipline, some naivety, whatever, but we are not a mediocre team, we are one of Europe's best. Not, I agree, on a par with Bayern, but not a million miles behind Barca.

The second thing is to appreciate that whatever the reason, we have had a freakish series of bad calls from the officials, in game- changing situations. Consider-

Demichelis' red card against Barca. No arguments with the red card but it wasn't a penalty and every blue reading this knows it. The penalty changed the course of the tie.

Silva's non penalty against Bayern. 0-0 with 5 mins to go, the referee failed to give as clear a penalty as you will see.

Maicon's foul on Aguero. Why no red card? The law is you get a red card if you deny an obvious goal scoring opportunity. It is unarguable that Aguero was not denied an obvious opportunity to score, so the red should have been shown.

Then we have last night - the failure to award the Dzeko penalty with us at 2-0 and the red card that would have followed, and their dubious penalty 5 minutes from time.

Over the course of a 38 game season the decisions may not even themselves out, but you tend to get bad calls going either way. We do get decisions going our way, but few game changers like the above. Zabaleta was half a yard offside last night but we have conceded goals which were equally tight, or had equally tight calls wrongly go against us. But I genuinely cannot think of a major let-off that we have benefited from (like avoiding an obvious red card or a stonewall penalty appeal against us go unawarded) in our favour, in the 4 seasons we have been in the CL.

As I say, all of our games, except Bayern at home last season, have been tight. In tight games, over a short 6 game season, these bad calls have a disproportionately greater effect than bad calls over the course of 38 games in the league.
 
Chris in London said:
Two things seem to me to be important to appreciate.

The first is that whilst our results are mediocre, we are nonetheless a very good team. Our opponents in the CL do not forget that, even if sometimes our fans do. That is why Roma and CSKA (and Dortmund, and Napoli) play the way they do against us - very organised in defence,look to keep us at arms length, hope to score on the break. Only once in four seasons have we been comprehensively outclassed, against Bayern last season. Even when we have lost we have been in the game.

Granted, our results do not reflect our ability. But that may be down to a number of things - some indiscipline, some naivety, whatever, but we are not a mediocre team, we are one of Europe's best. Not, I agree, on a par with Bayern, but not a million miles behind Barca.

The second thing is to appreciate that whatever the reason, we have had a freakish series of bad calls from the officials, in game- changing situations. Consider-

Demichelis' red card against Barca. No arguments with the red card but it wasn't a penalty and every blue reading this knows it. The penalty changed the course of the tie.

Silva's non penalty against Bayern. 0-0 with 5 mins to go, the referee failed to give as clear a penalty as you will see.

Maicon's foul on Aguero. Why no red card? The law is you get a red card if you deny an obvious goal scoring opportunity. It is unarguable that Aguero was not denied an obvious opportunity to score, so the red should have been shown.

Then we have last night - the failure to award the Dzeko penalty with us at 2-0 and the red card that would have followed, and their dubious penalty 5 minutes from time.

Over the course of a 38 game season the decisions may not even themselves out, but you tend to get bad calls going either way. We do get decisions going our way, but few game changers like the above. Zabaleta was half a yard offside last night but we have conceded goals which were equally tight, or had equally tight calls wrongly go against us. But I genuinely cannot think of a major let-off that we have benefited from (like avoiding an obvious red card or a stonewall penalty appeal against us go up awarded) in our favour, in the 4 seasons we have been in the CL.

As I say, all of our games, except Bayern at home last season, have been tight. In tight games, over a short 6 game season, these bad calls have a disproportionately greater effect than bad calls over the course of 38 games in the league.
I would say we were outclassed v Dortmund in the 1-1, Joe made a fair few brilliant saves.

I put it down to pellegrini this season , he insists on 442,no fucker in the champs league plays 442 because it leaves you too open in the middle(esp. with yaya),its alright to try and establish a brand of football , but when that brand of football makes you look like chumps what the point, Mr pellegrini needs to be more flexible
 
I'd like to echo much of what Blue Punter said on the first page of this thread. Once it's pointed out that 12 of our 23 matches - that's over half - have been against Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Dortmund it means that of the 11 matches played against other teams we have lost only 2. Certainly no worse than other English teams in the same period, even if we could have hoped for better.
 
It will be interesting to see if we can win a really big game in the next few weeks in this. Bayern or Roma in a game that really matters.

So far our record in big games has been poor. There is no disputing that.
 
Most teams who qualify for the champs league , raise their game for the competition , dortmund are a good example , playing shite in the bundesliga but have won all three of their european games . We are totally the opposite , our worst performances are consistently in the champs league , i dont believe MP is to blame , because Mancini had the same problems , its 100% down to the players. Why a team which has picked up 4 trophies and won the most difficult league in the world , twice in the last 3 seasons , has absolutely no confidence in europe , is beyond me.
 
The cookie monster said:
i kne albert davy said:
KippaxCitizen said:
In the big home games (Napoli, Dortmund Madrid, Bayern Barça, Roma) our record is:
P6 W0 D4 L2
Maybe I'm dreaming but could have sworn we beat Bayern 2 nil at home a few years ago.
It was a meaningless match,we've just beaten a pile of shit in the last 4 years & two matches v Bayern which meant nothing....
Eh one we could have qualified the other, one more goal and we top the group how much more do they have to mean.
 
i kne albert davy said:
The cookie monster said:
i kne albert davy said:
Maybe I'm dreaming but could have sworn we beat Bayern 2 nil at home a few years ago.
It was a meaningless match,we've just beaten a pile of shit in the last 4 years & two matches v Bayern which meant nothing....
Eh one we could have qualified the other, one more goal and we top the group how much more do they have to mean.
That first match Bayern had already won the group when they turned up at the Etihaad with a depleted side, it meant nothing to them.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
It will be interesting to see if we can win a really big game in the next few weeks in this. Bayern or Roma in a game that really matters.

So far our record in big games has been poor. There is no disputing that.

Seems like every game we have played in the CL have been really big games, we have yet to draw a minnow like the other English clubs usually draw.
 
sir peace frog said:
Chris in London said:
Two things seem to me to be important to appreciate.

The first is that whilst our results are mediocre, we are nonetheless a very good team. Our opponents in the CL do not forget that, even if sometimes our fans do. That is why Roma and CSKA (and Dortmund, and Napoli) play the way they do against us - very organised in defence,look to keep us at arms length, hope to score on the break. Only once in four seasons have we been comprehensively outclassed, against Bayern last season. Even when we have lost we have been in the game.

Granted, our results do not reflect our ability. But that may be down to a number of things - some indiscipline, some naivety, whatever, but we are not a mediocre team, we are one of Europe's best. Not, I agree, on a par with Bayern, but not a million miles behind Barca.

The second thing is to appreciate that whatever the reason, we have had a freakish series of bad calls from the officials, in game- changing situations. Consider-

Demichelis' red card against Barca. No arguments with the red card but it wasn't a penalty and every blue reading this knows it. The penalty changed the course of the tie.

Silva's non penalty against Bayern. 0-0 with 5 mins to go, the referee failed to give as clear a penalty as you will see.

Maicon's foul on Aguero. Why no red card? The law is you get a red card if you deny an obvious goal scoring opportunity. It is unarguable that Aguero was not denied an obvious opportunity to score, so the red should have been shown.

Then we have last night - the failure to award the Dzeko penalty with us at 2-0 and the red card that would have followed, and their dubious penalty 5 minutes from time.

Over the course of a 38 game season the decisions may not even themselves out, but you tend to get bad calls going either way. We do get decisions going our way, but few game changers like the above. Zabaleta was half a yard offside last night but we have conceded goals which were equally tight, or had equally tight calls wrongly go against us. But I genuinely cannot think of a major let-off that we have benefited from (like avoiding an obvious red card or a stonewall penalty appeal against us go up awarded) in our favour, in the 4 seasons we have been in the CL.

As I say, all of our games, except Bayern at home last season, have been tight. In tight games, over a short 6 game season, these bad calls have a disproportionately greater effect than bad calls over the course of 38 games in the league.
I would say we were outclassed v Dortmund in the 1-1, Joe made a fair few brilliant saves.

I put it down to pellegrini this season , he insists on 442,no fucker in the champs league plays 442 because it leaves you too open in the middle(esp. with yaya),its alright to try and establish a brand of football , but when that brand of football makes you look like chumps what the point, Mr pellegrini needs to be more flexible

Athletico reached the finals playing 442. I could swear that in whatever I saw of yesterday's match of Real v dippers, Real were 442
 
bluechampion7891 said:
sir peace frog said:
Chris in London said:
Two things seem to me to be important to appreciate.

The first is that whilst our results are mediocre, we are nonetheless a very good team. Our opponents in the CL do not forget that, even if sometimes our fans do. That is why Roma and CSKA (and Dortmund, and Napoli) play the way they do against us - very organised in defence,look to keep us at arms length, hope to score on the break. Only once in four seasons have we been comprehensively outclassed, against Bayern last season. Even when we have lost we have been in the game.

Granted, our results do not reflect our ability. But that may be down to a number of things - some indiscipline, some naivety, whatever, but we are not a mediocre team, we are one of Europe's best. Not, I agree, on a par with Bayern, but not a million miles behind Barca.

The second thing is to appreciate that whatever the reason, we have had a freakish series of bad calls from the officials, in game- changing situations. Consider-

Demichelis' red card against Barca. No arguments with the red card but it wasn't a penalty and every blue reading this knows it. The penalty changed the course of the tie.

Silva's non penalty against Bayern. 0-0 with 5 mins to go, the referee failed to give as clear a penalty as you will see.

Maicon's foul on Aguero. Why no red card? The law is you get a red card if you deny an obvious goal scoring opportunity. It is unarguable that Aguero was not denied an obvious opportunity to score, so the red should have been shown.

Then we have last night - the failure to award the Dzeko penalty with us at 2-0 and the red card that would have followed, and their dubious penalty 5 minutes from time.

Over the course of a 38 game season the decisions may not even themselves out, but you tend to get bad calls going either way. We do get decisions going our way, but few game changers like the above. Zabaleta was half a yard offside last night but we have conceded goals which were equally tight, or had equally tight calls wrongly go against us. But I genuinely cannot think of a major let-off that we have benefited from (like avoiding an obvious red card or a stonewall penalty appeal against us go up awarded) in our favour, in the 4 seasons we have been in the CL.

As I say, all of our games, except Bayern at home last season, have been tight. In tight games, over a short 6 game season, these bad calls have a disproportionately greater effect than bad calls over the course of 38 games in the league.
I would say we were outclassed v Dortmund in the 1-1, Joe made a fair few brilliant saves.

I put it down to pellegrini this season , he insists on 442,no fucker in the champs league plays 442 because it leaves you too open in the middle(esp. with yaya),its alright to try and establish a brand of football , but when that brand of football makes you look like chumps what the point, Mr pellegrini needs to be more flexible

Athletico reached the finals playing 442. I could swear that in whatever I saw of yesterday's match of Real v dippers, Real were 442

athletico are a counter attacking team and press very well and most of the time play 4-5-1 so 4-4-2 works for them and
real madrid played 4-3-3 with midfield 3 of isco , kross and modric its when they defend james rodriguez comes inside and it becomes 4-4-2
 

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