City in the Champs League

[BayernMan]

To be honest Chelsea's CL campaign was as lucky as it gets. Im not bitter cause they won fair and square but i doubt they come close to winning for a long while.

 

[TueartsOHK]

we also cleanly shat versus newcastle

Cheers blue - forgot about Newcastle. So in 12 matches (all comps) we've kept a clean sheet in 3 matches - one of them against a team that's had 12 shots on target all season (Villa), one is a home tie against a championship side and the other...well the other is Newcastle. I know were only in October but this is something that needs sorting out - I'm not sure if the problem is new players bedding in or tactics?

im not overly concerned about clean sheets in the Prem, we only kept them in bursts last season, but we played a lot more attacking football and scored more. But lack of cleanies in Europe is concerning, you have to keep the ball out, because you aint going to score many when you travel and they potentially count for extra when you concede them at home.

I agree that in the Europe clean sheets are more critical - the quality of the opposition often means that you can't rely on bagging lots of goals. Problem is unless you adjust the way that the team plays tactically in Europe, good defending and keeping teams out needs to become a habit in all competitions. It's difficult to play an open game in the PL every week and then switch to a more defensive position in European games. At least it's something were failing to do this season.

 

[BillyShears]

If its fatigue and you are 2-0 up then close it down. Job done. Put on fresh legs in the midfield and see the game out. Game management 101. Agreed?

He did bring fresh legs on, we did have the much vaunted extra man in midfield and we still conceded. You can't really get around that.

The lack of belief (as you may have gathered) is my take on our CL failings. Just as for LC its all down to the players. I do not thinks its all down to the players, which is just as well given the core isn't going anywhere soon (Yaya possibly excepted due to age).

It's not about the core players. I don't think we particularly have a problem with the spine of the team or it's make up. However we do have weaknesses in the squad (particularly down our left hand side) which have consistently been a problem in the CL. Whether that requires a new LB, or a whole new look left hand side is anyone's guess. But even with our strongest XI that side is a problem both in the attacking third of the pitch and in the defensive third of the pitch.

The internal pressures, our mind set, the way we approach the games, formation, our in game management is not conducive to a positive outcome in terms of sustained success.

Not being glib but I don't believe any of that for a second and I also think you should be very careful in making such sweeping generalisations when the only games we've actually lost in the CL in the last 14 months have been against Bayern and Barca. You might not like the way we lost them, but losing to either of those teams is no disgrace.

Way way too much is being made of the second half performance in Moscow. It wasn't good enough but the post mortems on our CL failing are incredibly premature.

 

[BobKowalski]

If its fatigue and you are 2-0 up then close it down. Job done. Put on fresh legs in the midfield and see the game out. Game management 101. Agreed?

He did bring fresh legs on, we did have the much vaunted extra man in midfield and we still conceded. You can't really get around that.

He bought on Navas. Was he closing it down or looking to kick on? I honestly don't know. I kind of got the feeling we hesitated between sticking or twisting and it all got a bit muddled. Also we had gone into funk mode and started to panic. Mentality. Again. Not believing in what we were doing. Again.

The lack of belief (as you may have gathered) is my take on our CL failings. Just as for LC its all down to the players. I do not thinks its all down to the players, which is just as well given the core isn't going anywhere soon (Yaya possibly excepted due to age).

It's not about the core players. I don't think we particularly have a problem with the spine of the team or it's make up. However we do have weaknesses in the squad (particularly down our left hand side) which have consistently been a problem in the CL. Whether that requires a new LB, or a whole new look left hand side is anyone's guess. But even with our strongest XI that side is a problem both in the attacking third of the pitch and in the defensive third of the pitch.

Agreed. The core is fine. Additions have been fine. There will always be weak areas. You address them or minimise their impact during a game

The internal pressures, our mind set, the way we approach the games, formation, our in game management is not conducive to a positive outcome in terms of sustained success.

Not being glib but I don't believe any of that for a second and I also think you should be very careful in making such sweeping generalisations when the only games we've actually lost in the CL in the last 14 months have been against Bayern and Barca. You might not like the way we lost them, but losing to either of those teams is no disgrace.

Way way too much is being made of the second half performance in Moscow. It wasn't good enough but the post mortems on our CL failing are incredibly premature.

I am not sure why I should be careful. Its not as if anyone actually gives a toss what I write on a forum. And I stick by what I say. Its not based on this campaign or the last one or the one before that. We lack a collective belief and a workable game plan when it comes to the CL. In our 4 years in the CL we have come up short when it comes to winning games that matter. That is self evident and unless we start winning the games that matter we will never have any meaningful or sustained success in the CL. And its not just about the 2nd half in Moscow. Its about the whole game against Roma. Two games we needed to win and should have won. Yet we didn't. Again.

 

[BillyShears]

I am not sure why I should be careful. Its not as if anyone actually gives a toss what I write on a forum. And I stick by what I say. Its not based on this campaign or the last one or the one before that. We lack a collective belief and a workable game plan when it comes to the CL. In our 4 years in the CL we have come up short when it comes to winning games that matter. That is self evident and unless we start winning the games that matter we will never have any meaningful or sustained success in the CL. And its not just about the 2nd half in Moscow. Its about the whole game against Roma. Two games we needed to win and should have won. Yet we didn't. Again.

You said yourself in an earlier posting that there's so many variables involved in one game of football, let alone a series of matches such as the CL, that to try and find one answer as to why a series of games are won and lost is fucking futile. You can play badly and win and you can play well and lose. That applies equally to Mourinho, to Ancelotti, and to Pellegrini.

This is our 4th champions league campaign ever and in terms of progress, last season was progress on the previous two. This season we need to make more progress, which means out of the group and at least into the quarters. It might happen it might not, but either way it won't prove we've 'cracked' the CL or that we will never crack it because we have some fundamental flaw in our DNA which no coach nor player can fix.

Look I'm all for analysis and discussion when it has some meaning to it. But I fear this CL discussion is utterly meaningless because too many people are drawing too many undercooked conclusions which as I say are deeply premature when there is still so much to play for in our group.

 

[shemnel]

Cheers blue - forgot about Newcastle. So in 12 matches (all comps) we've kept a clean sheet in 3 matches - one of them against a team that's had 12 shots on target all season (Villa), one is a home tie against a championship side and the other...well the other is Newcastle. I know were only in October but this is something that needs sorting out - I'm not sure if the problem is new players bedding in or tactics?

im not overly concerned about clean sheets in the Prem, we only kept them in bursts last season, but we played a lot more attacking football and scored more. But lack of cleanies in Europe is concerning, you have to keep the ball out, because you aint going to score many when you travel and they potentially count for extra when you concede them at home.

I agree that in the Europe clean sheets are more critical - the quality of the opposition often means that you can't rely on bagging lots of goals. Problem is unless you adjust the way that the team plays tactically in Europe, good defending and keeping teams out needs to become a habit in all competitions. It's difficult to play an open game in the PL every week and then switch to a more defensive position in European games. At least it's something were failing to do this season.

Shouldnt really have to adjust, in the last 4 seasons are clean sheets are thus;

10/11 - 18 in 38, best in Prem
11/12 - 17 in 38, 2nd best in Prem
12/13 - 18 in 38, best in Prem
13/14 - 16 in 38, 3rd best in Prem

Seemingly the team is adjusting away from the Prem mentality to play differently in the CL and perhaps it is not working?

Or do we not keep enough cleanies against top clubs? same seasons, all games against United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal;

10/11 - 4 in 9 games (W3 D2 L4, for 6, against 10)
11/12 - 4 in 12 games (W6 D2 L4, for 20, against 12)
12/13 - 3 in 9 games (W4 D4 L1, for 15, against 10)
13/14 - 2 in 9 games (W5 D1 L3, for 21, against 12)

Is this good or bad against those lot? who knows, we certainly won a fair few of them. But we need to pick up some more wins in Europe!!

 

[yerwot?]

City do not ''dictate'' games the way we need to, the way the top teams do.
It could be due to a lack of tactical nous in the ''engine room'' , waiting for halftime to change things is not acceptable.
We are too reactive rather than pro-active, teams in Europe seem to have City ''sussed out'' before a ball is kicked, despite the individual brilliance of our top players.
What the answer is, i have no idea, but something needs to change if we are to do better in the CL, we are not punching our weight up to now. If it means going to a 5-man midfield then it's a price worth paying if it makes us harder to beat. Imho.

 

[BobKowalski]

Reading Sergio on CL and he talks about the players questioning themselves and not playing their normal game. We are not getting beat by the opposition in the CL. We are beating ourselves.

 

[shemnel]

This is no assessment of whether we have been good or bad, just some facts, make up your own minds;

played 23
won 8 --- drawn 6 --- lost 9
home wins - 4 out of 11
away wins - 4 out of 12

conceded 1st in the game - 14 times
scored 1st in the game - 9 times

goals scored 38 (1.65 per game)
goals conceded 35 (1.52 per game)
3 clean sheets

goals scored at home - 20
goals scored away - 18
goals conceded at home - 16
goals conceded away - 19

lost from a winning position - 2 times
won from a losing position - 3 times

so, we've won 4 from 12 at home now, gifting CSKA their 1st ever win in England in the CL.

incredibly we've now kept 1 clean sheet in 18 attempts in europe (1 in 18!!) and no clean sheet for 11 in a row.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

A lot of debate recently over whether it was more enjoyable when we were shit.
Be careful what you wish for because that day is fast approaching.