City launch legal action against the Premier League | City win APT case (pg901)

[JASR]

Maybe City's counsel shouted "Duck" and all the arbitrators hid under the desk, and that was that.

Reminds me of my one of the 1st gifts I got Mrs JASR , just before she deployed to a highlands sandpit, a fluffy duck toy, to remind her what to do when things got a little iffy.

 

[halfcenturyup]

It’s a huge evidential burden to discharge. Possibly slightly easier if it was the only argument we were pursuing. Unlawfulness and abuse of dominant position would have provided the path of less resistance.

Sounds much sexier when you say it ....

 

[DiscoSteve]

...still none the f**king wiser what the salient points are or where this is going... keep going ladies and gentlemen though, saves me having to do any real work today...

 

[Chris in London]

Yes. But imagine if one of the findings was that the PL were deliberately being discriminatory. It would be a bombshell and could really blow the PL apart.

One on the issues that arose briefly over the summer was that the PL were ordered to disclose all the emails that referred to City.

Plainly, having read the judgment, that disclosure does not refer to the APT case. It makes it interesting to speculate on what the reason for the disclosure might be in the 115 case.

 

[halfcenturyup]

One on the issues that arose briefly over the summer was that the PL were ordered to disclose all the emails that referred to City.

Plainly, having read the judgment, that disclosure does not refer to the APT case. It makes it interesting to speculate on what the reason for the disclosure might be in the 115 case.

Good point, but don't keep us on tenterhooks. What is your speculation?

 

[terraloon]

to suggest that the apt and psr rules had anything to do with stopping another portsmouth is the same as suggesting that you are going to stop boats sinking by decreasing the speed limit.

People can always put their own spin on matters and whilst I can remember the exact wording UEFA moving from FFP to their new all singing all dancing version provide a lot of convenient stats that they say supports their stated aims.

In terms of here in the Uk it’s a statistical fact that the number of clubs entering an insolvency event has fallen in recent years indeed if you look at the list

Administration (British football) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 2000-2012 there were 42 clubs entering such events and 2013-2024 that had reduced to 9 . Most followed HMRC issuing Winding Up Orders

Pretty sure that a lot more emphasis was placed on keeping HMRC debts up to date and it was al linked to the clubs having to report any arrears to HM Government in real time and also the imposition of such things as transfer embargo’s

 

[mancboy]

People can always put their own spin on matters and whilst I can remember the exact wording UEFA moving from FFP to their new all singing all dancing version provide a lot of convenient stats that they say supports their stated aims.

In terms of here in the Uk it’s a statistical fact that the number of clubs entering an insolvency event has fallen in recent years indeed if you look at the list

Administration (British football) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 2000-2012 there were 42 clubs entering such events and 2013-2024 that had reduced to 9 . Most followed HMRC issuing Winding Up Orders

Pretty sure that a lot more emphasis was placed on keeping HMRC debts up to date and it was al linked to the clubs having to report any arrears to HM Government in real time and also the imposition of such things as transfer embargo’s

So your assumption that less clubs entering insolvency agreements is a suggestion that the current rules are working? Wouldnt you say thats somewhat specious reasoning, the reality of less clubs insolvency agreements could be down to any number of factors not least the massive amount of money in football at the moment, it would a huge reach to suggest it was solely down to the rules.

 

[Newman Noggs]

People can always put their own spin on matters and whilst I can remember the exact wording UEFA moving from FFP to their new all singing all dancing version provide a lot of convenient stats that they say supports their stated aims.

In terms of here in the Uk it’s a statistical fact that the number of clubs entering an insolvency event has fallen in recent years indeed if you look at the list

Administration (British football) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 2000-2012 there were 42 clubs entering such events and 2013-2024 that had reduced to 9 . Most followed HMRC issuing Winding Up Orders

Pretty sure that a lot more emphasis was placed on keeping HMRC debts up to date and it was al linked to the clubs having to report any arrears to HM Government in real time and also the imposition of such things as transfer embargo’s

Which divisions were those clubs in and how would the current rules applicable to PL clubs help them ?

 

[mancblue55]

Which divisions were those clubs in and how would the current rules applicable to PL clubs help them ?

So your assumption that less clubs entering insolvency agreements is a suggestion that the current rules are working? Wouldnt you say thats somewhat specious reasoning, the reality of less clubs insolvency agreements could be down to any number of factors not least the massive amount of money in football at the moment, it would a huge reach to suggest it was solely down to the rules.

A further possible explanation might be that the most vulnerable/badly managed clubs had already become insolvent in the preceding 12 years (whilst others potentially at risk, having seen what had happened to other clubs took the appropriate steps, regardless of rule changes).

 

[terraloon]

So your assumption that less clubs entering insolvency agreements is a suggestion that the current rules are working? Wouldnt you say thats somewhat specious reasoning, the reality of less clubs insolvency agreements could be down to any number of factors not least the massive amount of money in football at the moment, it would a huge reach to suggest it was solely down to the rules.

I am not saying that at all. Indeed far from that as I point out anyone can put their own spin on the numbers.

My guess is that it’s quite simply down to the fact that HMRC got ahead of the curve just after C&E & IR merged and chased debts in respect of PAYE/ NIC and Vat earlier and in a more joined up way than previously had done as separate entities. The vast bulk of WUO re football clubs were issued due to debt to government

Add to the fact that particularly within the EFL and National League they tightened up their internal process

Yes there is more money within the PL but once you get below that level the numbers are a disaster.