City launch legal action against the Premier League | Club & PL reach settlement | Proceedings dropped (p1147)

This whole saga illustrates that regulating income is fraught with weakness. A huge number of rules is required and for what? Can anybody explain how this creates competitive equality or saves clubs from financial difficulties. Masters certainly can’t.
Competitive equality is created by regulating the spend on team expenses and financial difficulties are mitigated by regulating debt.
If we dropped the regs on income, it would not make the slightest difference, except, of course, clubs would have more money for infrastructure and would be more likely to make a profit.
 
Sure but we would have got those three items following APT1 so there would ahve been no need to challege them again. And, we would have then also had pretty clear perception on our side, following that second verdict!

Surely you can see that my points aren't negative or anti-city as made out, but that the thing itself is just a bit - inconsistent.
Hadn’t considered you to be anti city. Was just joining in a discussion:-)
 
And potential compensation but as I previously explained this was never very material.

Yeah I broadly bracketed that within 'costs'. But get they aren't the same thing.

Fair that he PL stood more to lose. But with the settlement and that statement, they naturally also then 'win' more.
 
I’m not sure City have changed their stance on the rules being unlawful because that will now not be tested unless other clubs take up the baton. That they are valid is self-evident because the required number of Premier League clubs voted for them. The statement that City accept this is completely meaningless. Whatever is in the settlement means that City are content that the rules are no longer a threat - perhaps substantial compensation from the Premier League for wrongly blocking the Etihad and other deals by a flawed process played a part?

I do get what you are saying. However in having accepted the rules they so openly challenged, they have inevitabley changed their stance. Perhaps arguably not on the lawfulness itself, but on where the club stood on that. I guess if they thought all along the new rules were lawful but were challenging them for a laugh anyway, then they haven't maybe changed their stance. But they have changed their position on it.

Whether they are content or not, is pure assumption. Maybe they are. Maybe whatever they were up to worked. Maybe they realised settling was less damaging than the rules being found lawful had they carried on. Maybe they never intended to get this far with the second challenfe, and didn't expect the PL to call their bluff. We might never know.
 
Well, it's a case of 'give me my wallet back or I’ll burn your house down.' City got the wallet back, and PL’s house didn’t burn to the ground. Who’s the winner?

Not at all. We accepted they keep our wallet.
 
Hadn’t considered you to be anti city. Was just joining in a discussion:-)

I know, it was a broader point. Our discussion has been all good, and has moved my stance somewhat too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CC1
I think we are all trying to see what exactly City settled for, and I'd welcome your comments on my (rather tentative) view. City accepted the current APT rules as valid and binding (but not necessarily legal as Martin Samuel points out) and so no rule change is involved. This seems a conclusive win for the PL but I don't think City ever denied the need for some regulation in this area. What City objected to was the perceived bias - when the rules were introduced, their use to block the Etihad deal and others - and so it was the process rather than the rules which the club wanted to change. Whether City achieved this is of course unclear - whether it was a brutal threat to cost the PL a packet in legal fees every time they blocked a deal or if it was the use of more informed and experienced assessors of FMV - but according to (unofficial) sources City seem certain they will receive much fairer treatment and, in particular, the Etihad deal will be allowed. It's interesting to ask if any other APTs are expected.

Perhaps it's easier to break it down into what I know and what I think.

Here's what I know:

(a) the Premier League has no unilateral power to change the rules without giving due notice of any proposed rule change and receiving the support of a 2/3 of the clubs present and voting. So a behind the scenes rule change has simply not happened. It would be as unlawful as the original APT rules.

(b) The joint statement confirms that the entire dispute between the club and the league has been settled. Since as well as APT 2 there were also outstanding issues from APT 1 concerning the costs of the two hearings (which will run to tens of millions), compensation and even injunctive relief, it follows that all these elements have been settled also.

(c) City had something of a slam-dunk case for costs arising from APT 1. They would be unlikely however to recover less than about 60% and more than about 80% of their total outlay. So there was an area of doubt as to the exact figure, but the broad parameters of what they were going to recover were known.

(d) City had a solid claim for damages if they could show there was a loss which flowed from sponsorship deals being thwarted by unlawful rules. But the precise measure of their loss depends on what happened afterwards, which we don't know.

(e) City had probably no realistic chance (nor even any reason) to seek any sort of injunction.

(f) City have plainly got some ongoing deal with Etihad, because their name is still being printed on the front of the shirt. What we don't know is on what basis that ongoing sponsorship has been agreed.

(g) Compensation works by replacing what you should have had if the wrongful act had not been done. So if you haven't lost out, there is no right to compensation even if someone has done something unlawful.

Okay, now on to what I think,

(a) City won't have known specifically how much they would recover towards their costs, but as I say would have had a pretty good idea. So a compromise that included a figure of £X for costs probably doesn't give City anything that they wouldn't have got anyway.

(b) Much the same point can be made in relation to damages. If the Etihad deal passes as originally agreed, what loss have City actually incurred? Likewise, if the press rumours are bollocks and City will only be able to be sponsored up to the tune of £X by Etihad, and not £Y, they have a fairly easily quantifiable claim for damages by being prevented from entering into a deal by the application of unlawful rules. Again, we don't quite know what the loss City have suffered in relation to not just the Etihad deal but also (say) the First Abu Dhabi Bank deal being rejected, but it will not be difficult to work out.

(c) I can't see any legal or commercial reason why we would have settled the APT 2 case for the sorts of things - costs and damages - that we were going to get anyway. It seems to me that there has to be something tangible which the PL was (a) able to offer, and (b) did offer.

(d) Whilst from City's perspective there might not be too much difference between getting the full value of the Etihad deal from Etihad, and getting a lower deal approved plus damages from the PL, from the PL's perspective, there is a huge difference between the two. Using the future growth issue as an illustration, if we had agree 6% future growth with Etihad and the PL said "you can't have more than 5%" over the 10 year lifetime of a £1.5bn deal that adds up to quite a lot.

Which, if the Etihad deal was wrongfully impeded, the PL was on the hook for.

Which seems to give them quite an incentive in terms of agreeing a settlement that doesn't block the Etihad deal.

From City's perspective, they would much rather have the certainty of the deal with Etihad proceeding without further hiccup, and from the PL's perspective they would sooner not be on the hook for a substantial damages claim. (I think that in relation to some other aspects of the claim, eg the delays in the FMV assessments, they are on the hook anyway but those will be for much more manageable sums.)

We don't know, but what I think is that City had the PL between a rock and a hard place. I simply can't imagine why we would have settled all the aspects of the deal if it wasn't overall something we were satisfied with. It certainly wasn't some undisclosed rule change, and a promise by the PL to apply their rules fairly in the future is scarcely worth the paper it's written on. They were under an obligation to do that anyway, and City failed to prove that they hadn't done so.

Trust the club. This is a win even if its not immediately obvious what the win actually was.
 
Low blow, but well played
For what it's worth I do fully understand your stance about overthinking such a minimal statement, however I am in the camp of "there's no smoke without fire". I just can't see City starting it and then deciding that it wasn't a good idea. The next few weeks may tell us more, even if only by implication.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CC1
Sure but we would have got those three items following APT1 so there would ahve been no need to challege them again. And, we would have then also had pretty clear perception on our side, following that second verdict!

Surely you can see that my points aren't negative or anti-city as made out, but that the thing itself is just a bit - inconsistent.

If I may. I think you are making the mistake of looking for truth based on what is available publicly when what is available publicly is, in fact, bugger all.

I remember that when APT1 was launched, the expert opinion on here was that it wouldn't be easy to win such a competition case. I may be doing people an injustice, but I don't remember anyone mentioning the shareholder loan issue or, if they did, realising that that was the key to determining unlawfulness. Once that realisation was made, in hindsight for almost all of us, a successful outcome was (for the sake of the argument, I will use the word) easy.

I am not criticising anyone for not making that realisation, just making the point that, without it, the case looked a lot different. Some things we did learn, though, were that the guys in charge of all this are smart and don't fuck around for the fun of it.

Why am I saying all this? Well because we are again in a situation where we don't have all the pieces. I can imagine it can be awkward for people who like to have clarity, but what is clear to me from everything that has happened so far is that the guys in charge of all this are still smart, if they launched APT2 they did it on a sound basis and with a detailed strategy for resolution. I doubt very much they were outsmarted by the PL team to the extent that they had to run off with their tails between their legs.

I strongly believe they knew what they were doing and why, and if they have now settled it's because they largely achieved what they set out to do. I really can't imagine any other scenario, tbh.
 
Delaney said this (I know but bear with me): "It has also been agreed that City will step back from the challenge over interest-free shareholder loans, which had the potential to cause chaos for the Premier League."

Do you think he knows what he is talking about? I only ask, because the NYT also said this: "The compromise has avoided the nuclear outcome of the rulebook being ripped up entirely."

Is this just journalistic drama, or was there a risk that the PL could have ended up in big trouble over this?
No I don't think he knows what he is talking about. Of course, City dropped the challenge over retrospective treatment of shareholder loans a) because it was always pointless and b) because that is a consequence of the settlement. It was pointless because no club could possibly have been treated as being in breach of PSR retrospectively when they simply followed the rules in place at the time. So it was all futile and game playing on this point.

As for the "ripping up the rule book completely", it is hysterical rubbish. There wasn't even a realistic prospect of the APTs being ripped up entirely because even in the worst case for the PL, there was enough in APT1a and 1b to show the PL how to re-write a completely new set of lawful rules on APT at the first opportunity. As I said, the APT ruling endorsed the lawfulness of an APT regime and City didn't challenge any other part of the rulebook.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top