City's "Fan On The Board"

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

That rings bells. And was BTH's outrage because the club just picked four candidates? Not including Noel? Weren't there accusations that Dave pretended not to be interested and was lobbying behind the scenes?

Someone must be able to fill out the blanks. Loads of ex-fanzine editors on here.

I just edited my piece a little.
Noel wasn't nominated, well, he wasn't one of the 4 in the first year, but I'm sure he can speak for himself.

My fanzines are in a box in my mates garage! I'll get him to dig one out and see who the 4th person was.

Just in case it helps to narrow down in terms of dates when he's looking through the fanzine - I've located this from the MCIVTA site, which suggests that the result of the first 'Fans' Representative' election was held on 21 September 1994, and it was rather a landslide for Dave Wallace, who won 63% of the votes: http://mcivta.com/mcivta/Di-Au94.html

I do remember that one thing which contributed to the breakdown of the relationship between Dave and the club was the comment he offered to one of the tabloids when Alan Ball was appointed. He wasn't directly critical, but his rather guarded tone and reference to Ball's past record didn't meet the approval of some in the boardroom, it seemed. (Nor do I recall Dave ever suggesting he was misquoted).

Thanks - the 4th person was Alan Tapper (below taken from MCIVTA)
''The programme includes a voting slip for the election of the club's first supporters' representative: the candidates are Cath Knott, Alan Tapper, Dave Wallace & Frank Horrocks.''

I think he ran a pub somewhere in Failsworth? The Star seems to ring a bell.

 

[petrusha]

I just edited my piece a little.
Noel wasn't nominated, well, he wasn't one of the 4 in the first year, but I'm sure he can speak for himself.

My fanzines are in a box in my mates garage! I'll get him to dig one out and see who the 4th person was.

Just in case it helps to narrow down in terms of dates when he's looking through the fanzine - I've located this from the MCIVTA site, which suggests that the result of the first 'Fans' Representative' election was held on 21 September 1994, and it was rather a landslide for Dave Wallace, who won 63% of the votes: http://mcivta.com/mcivta/Di-Au94.html

I do remember that one thing which contributed to the breakdown of the relationship between Dave and the club was the comment he offered to one of the tabloids when Alan Ball was appointed. He wasn't directly critical, but his rather guarded tone and reference to Ball's past record didn't meet the approval of some in the boardroom, it seemed. (Nor do I recall Dave ever suggesting he was misquoted).

Thanks - the 4th person was Alan Tapper (below taken from MCIVTA)
''The programme includes a voting slip for the election of the club's first supporters' representative: the candidates are Cath Knott, Alan Tapper, Dave Wallace & Frank Horrocks.''

I think he ran a pub somewhere in Failsworth? The Star seems to ring a bell.

Great. I know the name Alan Tapper, but I can't remember anything about his background. MCIVTA is a great resource for finding out information like this, though. Especially for the 3 years or so that I did news for them! ;)

I found this also from September 1995: http://mcivta.com/mcivta/1/25.html. It contains a comment that the now defunct Today newspaper had reported that, "Dave Wallace was not re-elected but was beaten by a candidate from Stoke(?). Apparently, shortly after this, Frannie terminated the 'fan on the board' arrangement!".

I presume the guy from Stoke was Bittner, who ran a pub in Staffordshire IIRC. So basically the Fans' Representative idea (they obviously tried to distance themselves from the name 'Fan on the Board' from the off!) was ditched after a year.

It also seems that Dave Wallace was critical of the club and Francis Lee in the media after being ousted, too, such as on this occasion immediately after relegation in 1996: http://mcivta.com/mcivta/1/92.html.

Meanwhile, this edition of MCIVTA from January 1996 contains a brief summary of the most recent fans' committee meeting: http://mcivta.com/mcivta/1/57.html. There were four fans' reps there, Dave Wallace, Mark Bittner, Steve Knott and Les Saul.

 

[Gordyola]

Part of Franny Lee's big con to make money out of a Manchester City floatation, by ousting Swales using us fans, was that he promised us that the board would include one fan. Who remembers this debacle? It was presented as the democratisation of Manchester City, a great step forward for football.

Once Franny was in he had to carry this through and it was oh-so-typical City. The first set of problems occurred when it came to selecting the candidates. I can't remember the detail but an almighty row erupted (as was the norm) in the fanzines. Others will have clearer memories but it came back to the raw hatred which existed between Noel Bayley of BTH and Dave Wallace of KOTK. I think each accused the other of dirty tricks in an attempt to achieve this position. In the event it went down to a ballot in the program, and I think Noel may have pulled out by this point. As it was, Dave Wallace won and was installed as "fan on the board".

Anyone in business will know what a daft idea this was, and so it proved. I am sure that Wallace found himself effectively sitting in the corridor for most of these meetings whilst the serious stuff was discussed, then wheeled in for a five minute AOB about pies at the end. After a short period of time and some bitter accusations, the whole thing was quietly shelved.

"Fan on The Board" summed up the smoke and mirrors of Franny Lee's Chairmanship and the divisions and bitchiness at the heart of our club throughout that period. One of many skeletons in the club's cupboard.

So what proof do you have that it was a con by FHL?
Ultimately he saved the club from bankruptcy despite the 20 years of incompetent mis-management by the previous meglomanic. The financial sabotage, the cost of sorting out the contracts that has been awarded to Swales' mates so that they too could line their pockets at the club's expense. Yes, FHL made many mistakes but he layed the foundation of the move to CoMS and supported the setting up of the Academy, made great signing in Walsh Rosler, Kinky etc. He was also hampered by having to build the new Kippax and the loss of revenue whilst the stand was built

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

Just in case it helps to narrow down in terms of dates when he's looking through the fanzine - I've located this from the MCIVTA site, which suggests that the result of the first 'Fans' Representative' election was held on 21 September 1994, and it was rather a landslide for Dave Wallace, who won 63% of the votes: http://mcivta.com/mcivta/Di-Au94.html

I do remember that one thing which contributed to the breakdown of the relationship between Dave and the club was the comment he offered to one of the tabloids when Alan Ball was appointed. He wasn't directly critical, but his rather guarded tone and reference to Ball's past record didn't meet the approval of some in the boardroom, it seemed. (Nor do I recall Dave ever suggesting he was misquoted).

Thanks - the 4th person was Alan Tapper (below taken from MCIVTA)
''The programme includes a voting slip for the election of the club's first supporters' representative: the candidates are Cath Knott, Alan Tapper, Dave Wallace & Frank Horrocks.''

I think he ran a pub somewhere in Failsworth? The Star seems to ring a bell.

Great. I know the name Alan Tapper, but I can't remember anything about his background. MCIVTA is a great resource for finding out information like this, though. Especially for the 3 years or so that I did news for them! ;)

I found this also from September 1995: http://mcivta.com/mcivta/1/25.html. It contains a comment that the now defunct Today newspaper had reported that, "Dave Wallace was not re-elected but was beaten by a candidate from Stoke(?). Apparently, shortly after this, Frannie terminated the 'fan on the board' arrangement!".

I presume the guy from Stoke was Bittner, who ran a pub in Staffordshire IIRC. So basically the Fans' Representative idea (they obviously tried to distance themselves from the name 'Fan on the Board' from the off!) was ditched after a year.

It also seems that Dave Wallace was critical of the club and Francis Lee in the media after being ousted, too, such as on this occasion immediately after relegation in 1996: http://mcivta.com/mcivta/1/92.html.

Meanwhile, this edition of MCIVTA from January 1996 contains a brief summary of the most recent fans' committee meeting: http://mcivta.com/mcivta/1/57.html. There were four fans' reps there, Dave Wallace, Mark Bittner, Steve Knott and Les Saul.

Alan Tapper was well known in the supporter / club circles, hosted lots of events in his pub for charridee.

Yes, I do now recall that Mark did win (hence the allegation he had gone around with photocopied forms etc) and I seem to remember that Frannie wasn't too keen on Mark (yes he did run a pub in Stone, Staffs) as he was ''a bit of a loose cannon'' (not my words!) and so just pulled the plug on it.

 

[petrusha]

Yes, I was quite hazy on the details when the thread was originally posted but having gone through some of the old editions of MCIVTA and seen your contributions, I'm starting to remember more. I do recall now that there were the two elections, and it was the second that involved Mark Bittner and Dave Wallace. I also remember now that it was reported that Bittner won, but they pulled the plug anyway and went with the Fans' Committee instead.

I only really remember Mark Bittner from this Fans' Representative episode. However, he comes up quite a bit on the threads talking about City's away support in the seventies, and notable characters on the Maine Road terraces.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

Yes, I was quite hazy on the details when the thread was originally posted but having gone through some of the old editions of MCIVTA and seen your contributions, I'm starting to remember more. I do recall now that there were the two elections, and it was the second that involved Mark Bittner and Dave Wallace. I also remember now that it was reported that Bittner won, but they pulled the plug anyway and went with the Fans' Committee instead.

I only really remember Mark Bittner from this Fans' Representative episode. However, he comes up quite a bit on the threads talking about City's away support in the seventies, and notable characters on the Maine Road terraces.

I wrote a piece around the time of the second vote, protesting that I don't buy a programme so how can I vote and i also said if I did buy a programme then it would be as I collected them so would be unlikely to rip a page out. Shortly after (though probably not as a result of my comment, though I like to think it was ;) the club announced you could photocopy the page and send it in which looked daft as it was said half way through the 'election', but clearly there had been a poor return.
The allegation around the photocopies being filled in, in certain pubs centred around (allegedly) Mark finding out he was X amount of votes behind and turned up a few days later with a fistful of forms!

I also came up with an alternative form of election, where nominees are paraded on the pitch at half time and each name is called out one at a time and the applause / boo's are recorded. The nominee with the loudest cheer wins!

 

[Tbilisi]

Part of Franny Lee's big con to make money out of a Manchester City floatation, by ousting Swales using us fans, was that he promised us that the board would include one fan. Who remembers this debacle? It was presented as the democratisation of Manchester City, a great step forward for football.

Once Franny was in he had to carry this through and it was oh-so-typical City. The first set of problems occurred when it came to selecting the candidates. I can't remember the detail but an almighty row erupted (as was the norm) in the fanzines. Others will have clearer memories but it came back to the raw hatred which existed between Noel Bayley of BTH and Dave Wallace of KOTK. I think each accused the other of dirty tricks in an attempt to achieve this position. In the event it went down to a ballot in the program, and I think Noel may have pulled out by this point. As it was, Dave Wallace won and was installed as "fan on the board".

Anyone in business will know what a daft idea this was, and so it proved. I am sure that Wallace found himself effectively sitting in the corridor for most of these meetings whilst the serious stuff was discussed, then wheeled in for a five minute AOB about pies at the end. After a short period of time and some bitter accusations, the whole thing was quietly shelved.

"Fan on The Board" summed up the smoke and mirrors of Franny Lee's Chairmanship and the divisions and bitchiness at the heart of our club throughout that period. One of many skeletons in the club's cupboard.

So what proof do you have that it was a con by FHL?
Ultimately he saved the club from bankruptcy despite the 20 years of incompetent mis-management by the previous meglomanic. The financial sabotage, the cost of sorting out the contracts that has been awarded to Swales' mates so that they too could line their pockets at the club's expense. Yes, FHL made many mistakes but he layed the foundation of the move to CoMS and supported the setting up of the Academy, made great signing in Walsh Rosler, Kinky etc. He was also hampered by having to build the new Kippax and the loss of revenue whilst the stand was built

You are correct in my opinion but I bet if Franny had his time again he would not appoint Ball,you must admit that was serious bad judgement.

 

[Vienna_70]

Part of Franny Lee's big con to make money out of a Manchester City floatation, by ousting Swales using us fans, was that he promised us that the board would include one fan. Who remembers this debacle? It was presented as the democratisation of Manchester City, a great step forward for football.

Once Franny was in he had to carry this through and it was oh-so-typical City. The first set of problems occurred when it came to selecting the candidates. I can't remember the detail but an almighty row erupted (as was the norm) in the fanzines. Others will have clearer memories but it came back to the raw hatred which existed between Noel Bayley of BTH and Dave Wallace of KOTK. I think each accused the other of dirty tricks in an attempt to achieve this position. In the event it went down to a ballot in the program, and I think Noel may have pulled out by this point. As it was, Dave Wallace won and was installed as "fan on the board".

Anyone in business will know what a daft idea this was, and so it proved. I am sure that Wallace found himself effectively sitting in the corridor for most of these meetings whilst the serious stuff was discussed, then wheeled in for a five minute AOB about pies at the end. After a short period of time and some bitter accusations, the whole thing was quietly shelved.

"Fan on The Board" summed up the smoke and mirrors of Franny Lee's Chairmanship and the divisions and bitchiness at the heart of our club throughout that period. One of many skeletons in the club's cupboard.

So what proof do you have that it was a con by FHL?
Ultimately he saved the club from bankruptcy despite the 20 years of incompetent mis-management by the previous meglomanic. The financial sabotage, the cost of sorting out the contracts that has been awarded to Swales' mates so that they too could line their pockets at the club's expense. Yes, FHL made many mistakes but he layed the foundation of the move to CoMS and supported the setting up of the Academy, made great signing in Walsh Rosler, Kinky etc. He was also hampered by having to build the new Kippax and the loss of revenue whilst the stand was built

You are correct in my opinion but I bet if Franny had his time again he would not appoint Ball,you must admit that was serious bad judgement.

Whilst I agree apponting Ball was a monumental error, I don't think anything that Franny, Colin Barlow and co. did can be called a Con.

I am in no doubt that FHL had the best interests of the club (and the fans) at heart and has often been stated over the years, the club was in a far worse state than he ever imagined, the two most notable examples being that the club owned neither the club crest, nor the club shop.

It was Franny who started the process of us moving to our present home and to introducing a much higher level of corporate hospitality.

Having Swales in charge of this great football club was akin to having a corner shop owner running ASDA.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

Having Swales in charge of this great football club was akin to having a corner shop owner running ASDA.

I'd say it was more like the hot dog stand seller than the corner shop owner ;)

 

[citijen]

Mark Bittner now runs a restaurant Las Brisas in Javea Spain or did until recently he also drove a Jag over here reg KIPPAX .BTW I am not he just
in case anyone thinks I am advertising.