Coronavirus (2021) thread

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I was also made to feel rather more elderly by the way I was asked questions - the tone was rather like that you would use to someone who was going doolally. When it got to the question "Do you know why you are here?" I was tempted to answer that that was a question that had puzzled mankind since time immemorial. But again I thought better of it.
I applaud the fantastic efforts of staff and volunteers in the vaccine roll-out.

One thing I've noticed, however, is how patronising our tone sometimes is with "the elderly". A couple of highly intelligent 80+ folk with medical backgrounds were on LBC Radio recently questioning the risk of delay in the 2nd dose of their Pfizer vaccine on the basis of the extension being unproven. Both presenters notably talked louder and more slowly while over-explaining the efficacy of the first dose, though that wasn't the point at all.

The assumption we lose our marbles when we hit 80 is worrying. I take folk of that age to hospital as a voluntary driver and they're more often than not more up to speed than I am.
 
I think this runs on from the same point as above - that the body may start noticing the carrier adenovirus and nullify it. That would mean that the mRNA approach using that vector is redundant. I think that the "tolerably accommodate" here may relate to the amount of mRNA that can be dosed before the body combats the vector carrier.

Protein vaccines are likely to be the specific spike protein parts (or other protein produced by the virus) and not the RNA encoding them, and any immune response is going to be specific for them.

Thanks as always MMA.
 
That was my thoughts too, which is why I didn't really understand this particular follow up post from Kolchinsky, who as Somapop points out is very balanced and has never came across as sensationalist on any of his opinions, but I was a bit taken aback by this...



Interested to read how you interpret this, as perhaps the wording of his tweet maybe makes it seem worse than it it actually is?

Well we have one strain that has semi-evaded the vaccines. I'd like to know how the whole virus vaccines cope with this SA strain.

The problem now is that we have to rollout compromised vaccines to get the epidemic down, and when the embers are left we go with a modified vaccine. He was raising the question of whether a highly targeted vaccine aimed at what we thought was a conserved region was a good idea. I think we'll know more from genomics over the Spring and Summer and we'll what variation happens. If we go now with a new vaccine that could be outflanked. I think we have to use the existing tools and then see what shape the enemy is in the Summer and then go again.

No doubt some pharmaceutical company will probably try not to create a SA variant vaccine based on a working vaccine. If I was a government, I would instruct one of my pharmaceutical companies to do that whilst the others hang fire
 
Scotland update:

5 deaths - was 6 last week

928 cases - was 848 last week

283 Greater Glasgow, 169 Lanarkshire, 121 Lothian

Positivity 6.6% - was 9.5% last week

Patients 1672 - down 38 on yesterday - was 1958 last week

Ventilated icu 108 - same as yesterday - was 143 last week
 
Scotland vaccination update:

866, 823 first doses given - 27, 557 yesterday - was 52, 839 day before

99.6% of all residents in older age groups now done. Nicola Sturgeon says these are above the numbers they expected to agree to a vaccination.

95% of all over 80s also now vaccinated

67% of 75 - 79 years old

29% of 70 to 75 year olds
 
Well we have one strain that has semi-evaded the vaccines. I'd like to know how the whole virus vaccines cope with this SA strain.

The problem now is that we have to rollout compromised vaccines to get the epidemic down, and when the embers are left we go with a modified vaccine. He was raising the question of whether a highly targeted vaccine aimed at what we thought was a conserved region was a good idea. I think we'll know more from genomics over the Spring and Summer and we'll what variation happens. If we go now with a new vaccine that could be outflanked. I think we have to use the existing tools and then see what shape the enemy is in the Summer and then go again.

No doubt some pharmaceutical company will probably try not to create a SA variant vaccine based on a working vaccine. If I was a government, I would instruct one of my pharmaceutical companies to do that whilst the others hang fire

Thank you. Always appreciate a lay man's interpretation of this kind of stuff, it's really interesting but difficult to get my head around at times.

No problem. It's just my take on it - it makes sense in my head anyway!

It certainly helps with my understanding. Just to go one step further, and I realise this goes from science to policy and any opinion here would be purely speculative, but what do you suggest this might mean for the population in terms of trying to move forward? Health, hospitals, restrictions etc. Do you see this as something greatly damaging or more a small and not unexpected barrier which will be more for pharma industry to work around than for the public to be overly concerned with?
 
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Wales vaccination update:

603, 976 first doses given - 14, 354 yesterday - was 32, 625 day before

2792 second does given - 186 yesterday - was 135 day before


Vaccination numbers in both Scotland and Wales were well down yesterday - possibly bad weather related and Sunday, of course.

Nicola Sturgeon was asked and made clear they are expecting to pass one million vaccinations on Scotland this coming week and planning to vaccinate all down to age 50 by 'Early May' but that this was always going to be the plan and vaccine supply dependent but did not clarify further if that meant there was an issue or just reasonable caution on the one thing they have little control over as orders are there but deliveries are multi factor dependent.
 

Wonder how similar the data will be for the Oxford vaccine when we have enough to compare as the above is the other vaccine.

Probably the only thing that will stop the panic being created by the number of hits the Oxford one has had in recent days. BY accident or design it is being billed the loser in the race. And I am not sure it is at all.

I suspect the docs and Hancock tonight will be charged to get across the message that not catching Covid might seem what you want but the reality is not getting ill enough from it to swamp hospitals or die is the actual desired outcome.

The end game here will be a virus that keeps mutating to an equilibrium like that and our annually tweaked vaccine updates can keep under control.

It is not actually about the one thing that differentiates the AZ from the Pfizer vaccines - stopping you catching it at all. But how bad you catch it if you do.

If 99% of the country caught a cold one winter it would not kill thousands or swamp the NHS or leave us living in bomb shelters for life. At most it would be an irritation. But if 1% of people who did catch it needed ventilation or died then it may well need such extreme response (not quite but you get the picture).

We really have to make people see that mitigating Covid to a much less serious illness with minimum need for long NHS care and resulting deaths is way more what we are seeking not to have a vaccine table that says how many it stops catching it and the winner gains all.

It is counter intuitive to most people but there is no current evidence the Oxford vaccine is less successful in that key respect - even if it is less effective in stopping people 'catching Covid at all. And indeed some evidence it might even be better at the thing most people have not yet realised IS the most important outcome. Stopping transmission to others.

If you make Covid a minimally invasive disease and one that is much less easy to pass on then you get things under control. Even if only 10% are stopped from getting it at all. If you stop 90% from catching it but the 10% that do can still infect others as easily and/or get sick enough to die the best vaccine is not the one it appears to be.

There are huge commercial stakes here and this will turn into a bitter international sales pitch. The world needs to see the truth not the PR pitch.
 
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Think it’s only on the BBc new channel not BBC 1 if I heard right.
They usually are on both but the BBC tend to not change schedules until quite late.

But there have been occasions they have decided that showing Pointless was less pointless than showing what they deem a pointless news conference.

Guess they decide when they know more about it if it is something routine or something that the public need to hear.

Will be quite surprised though if this is not on BBC 1 too.
 
England hospital deaths

313 with 23 from the NW.

Was 356 with 23 last week - so a rather small fall week to week but small rise in NW percentage.

Mondays are always low - previous 2 weeks were 609 and 54 and 532 and 45.

Sunday data is the reason. And NW always under reports today and tomorrow.
 
England 313 hospital deaths

By region

South East 83, Midlands 77, East 47, NE & Yorks 43, London 34, North West 23, South West 6

9 in Pennine Acute was the highest in NW. 22 in Surrey & Sussex and 15 in Birmingham most in UK.
 
Thank you. Always appreciate a lay man's interpretation of this kind of stuff, it's really interesting but difficult to get my head around at times.



It certainly helps with my understanding. Just to go one step further, and I realise this goes from science to policy and any opinion here would be purely speculative, but what do you suggest this might mean for the population in terms of trying to move forward? Health, hospitals, restrictions etc. Do you see this as something greatly damaging or more a small and not unexpected barrier which will be more for pharma industry to work around than for the public to be overly concerned with?

I think it is mostly science.
Pharma will be looking for the next vaccines against it, and will come up with something. As they learn more about it and how long current vaccines work for, they'll get better products. I think it'll probably just roll on for now, with any ongoing vaccination programme just subbing a new one in when appropriate.

Policy - I would think it depends if a new variant takes hold in the UK like the one in the autumn. If it's kept down to bare minimum hits, it'll be a potential obstacle to international travel, but wouldn't make much difference internally. It'll then come down to political will and social behaviour as to what happens. Short version: too soon to tell.
 
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