Coronavirus (2021) thread

[ayrshire_blue]

My fiancee who is 23 had the AZ vaccine a few weeks ago. Do you reckon she would have had a reaction blood clot wise by now if she was under any risk? A little worried about it tbh.

I thought that those who've tragically suffered from them have done so within days of receiving the vaccine, don't quote me on that though.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Sometimes I do think this flapping is purposeful by some. They know exactly what they’re fucking doing!

I agree with your sentiment and the majority of your post. But on this point, I don't see it that way. I think people's mental health has taken a hammer blow, and with so many previous set backs, the slightest hint of trouble ahead becomes unintentionally exaggerated sending people (me included at times), into a panic. It's almost as if people are actively waiting on the bad news to come, as if there's an inevitability about it.

The media have a double chance of striking headlines and grabbing attention. "Everyone will be absolutely free come 21st June", bold letters plastered on every outlet putting people generally in good spirits only for the same outlets "LOCKED DOWN UNTIL 2022" or such like only a month or so later, it gets the same readers attention again. That absolutely fucks with people's minds rather than just writing about exactly how it is. So yeah, perhaps the media are purposely flapping but I can't blame the public for how it's interpreted, its difficult to stay sane over a year down the line.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Christ you're insufferable.

Clearly, available and rapid testing is required to help identify outbreaks and shut them down asap. Do you want your freedoms or not? Do you have a better plan to achieve post-pandemic utopia?

People moaned about the test and trace system costing so much, but when it’s actually putting the money to good use for once by still using it into the future to identify outbreaks and possible new variants, people still moan about it.

 

[Cityfan]

My fiancee who is 23 had the AZ vaccine a few weeks ago. Do you reckon she would have had a reaction blood clot wise by now if she was under any risk? A little worried about it tbh.

I think being worried is very natural because there is a lot of controversy and information about it just now.
However I don't think you need to be . The reports are suggesting the clots are manifesting between 4 and sixteen days so if it was a few weeks ago she should be fine.
In all honesty all emdicines have some side effects these appear very rare , they are obviously of concern to younger people becuase their absolute risk from covid is very low , however the risk from these clots appears to be also very low indeed.

 

[Franny's toilet roll]

I thought that those who've tragically suffered from them have done so within days of receiving the vaccine, don't quote me on that though.

The stat is for blood clots occuring 4-28 days after the jab. Unless i've missed it, no link has been found ( yet) to the vaccine. I also understand that the number of clots occurring since we've been taking the vaccine in the UK is down on average, so it 'could' be inferred that the vaccine actually reduces blood clots. As stated by most, the risk of covid is greater than that from clotting . The blood clot issue is an interesting one though. My daughter is 6 months pregnant and is a clinical scientist specialising in genetic birth disorders. She wont be taking the vaccine until after the baby is born. My wife and i are due our second jabs in April/May we had Astrazenaca. I'm a little cynical regarding the adverse publicity for this 'at cost' jab. Too much political and Big Pharma interference for me

 

[BlueHammer85]

Go to North Korea, mate. Might give you a reality check.

I get there are pessimistic people around but some of the stuff you spout is utter nonsense.

Did you know that in normal pre-Covid times, people in Sweden socially distance in queues out of politeness as part of their culture? And in South Korea (SOUTH!), they wear masks in public to stop the spread of viruses like simple flu and common colds as part of their culture?

Social distancing and mask wearing for the next couple of years while a virus like Covid is still around is just common fucking sense.

Stop moaning about it, you’re not the only person living through this, every one of us is. Stop jumping to paranoid extremes, stop comparing everything to Orwell and North Korea... find some things to enjoy during these times that you won’t be able to do or have time to do when the world gets back to normal. Lockdown has changed my life, I’m the healthiest I’ve been for about 15 years and that wouldn’t have happened if it weren’t for Covid. Take positives out of every situation instead of moaning about fictional extremes.

And what level of insight into SAGE do you have that makes you qualified to call them an absolute joke? Do you have any idea how hard people (normal individuals with families of their own, they’re not some crazy scientists in a military dictatorship) are working within SAGE towards defeating this pandemic?

Very well said.

 

[unicorn]

The one thing that would have made the biggest difference is paying people a level of sick pay (not £95 pw) that meant they didn’t need to go to work for a week or two if they were ill. Whitty said yesterday that, going forward, any social distancing measures will need to include staying at home when you aren’t well, which just hasn’t been happening because people can’t afford it.

Agree, and that's why Track & Trace will fail to cope with virus variants, even as we get Covid down to manageable levels, unless we enforce isolation and help folk cope financially.

The BMA survey (Adherence to the test, trace, and isolate system in the UK: results from 37 nationally representative surveys | The BMJ) indicated only 43% adhered to the required isolation periods, mainly because of finances.

 

[paulchapo]

I agree with your sentiment and the majority of your post. But on this point, I don't see it that way. I think people's mental health has taken a hammer blow, and with so many previous set backs, the slightest hint of trouble ahead becomes unintentionally exaggerated sending people (me included at times), into a panic. It's almost as if people are actively waiting on the bad news to come, as if there's an inevitability about it.

The media have a double chance of striking headlines and grabbing attention. "Everyone will be absolutely free come 21st June", bold letters plastered on every outlet putting people generally in good spirits only for the same outlets "LOCKED DOWN UNTIL 2022" or such like only a month or so later, it gets the same readers attention again. That absolutely fucks with people's minds rather than just writing about exactly how it is. So yeah, perhaps the media are purposely flapping but I can't blame the public for how it's interpreted, its difficult to stay sane over a year down the line.

I've mentioned before the media have on the whole been terrible during this pandemic. There are also a load of experts wheeled out, some sounding positive and some appearing to want us all locked indoors and everything shut forever.

Mentally it is starting to take it's toll on a lot of people. I understand some posters saying their partner/kids are doing their head in but a lot live alone. In normal times that is okay, you can go out and socialise, visit family and friends etcetera, have an outlet. That has been taken away. Phone calls and the internet are a poor substitute for real human interaction.

 

[True_Blue69]

I’d imagine the risk of blood clots are far higher if she contracts COVID .

In a fit and healthy 23 year old? Love to see the evidence you’re basing that on.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

I agree they should've done more to help with sick pay for those who test positive. Perhaps even allow people to be furloughed for a couple of weeks at least, especially as it's estimated that furlough has cost billions in fraudulent claims, yet those who have to isolate due to Covid are only entitled to £95 per week. On the flip side to that, all these people who have Covid but can't afford to isolate - what exactly do they do when they're off sick for any other reason? If they can't get into work because they're floored with the flu or have broken an ankle, etc, can they all of a sudden afford a couple of weeks or so off work on SSP for those reasons but not when they have Covid?

They might stay off work for a few days, if they are ill. What they’ve never had to do before is stay off work if they’re feeling absolutely fine but someone they might have stood next to for a while test positive (for a virus they might have had weeks ago). There’s no sick pay at all for that either.

 

[paulchapo]

They are reporting links this morning of blood clots to AZ . it was difficult to report side effects because the site was set up extremely difficult.
in the end I tried the doctor, and the dentist to report side effects

If you mean that yellow site it is a nightmare to fill the online form in. Really all is you should have needed was your name, age, doctor's name and where the vaccine was administered, your symptoms and the batch number. Instead I had to plough through loads of irrelevant stuff as well. I almost gave up at one point.

 

[Mr Coopz]

Speaking only for myself, I don’t have a problem at all with certain events requiring “passports”, twice weekly testing and wearing a mask in certain situations. But social distancing to me represents a very credible threat that needs thwarting. If we have to socially distance, how can most things even pretend to resemble “normality” ? How can clubs operate as we did before if you have to keep your distance from everyone ? How can we all hop on down to the Etihad if you have to keep a 2m distance ? To me social distancing represents nothing “normal”. If we do have to distance, then a lot of events we attended before covid aren’t really safe then are they ? Social distancing to me has to be done properly everywhere or else what’s the point. What is the point distancing in one place like a shop but you can then attend a 400 person rave on the same day all signing and practically grinding on each other ? It just doesn’t make any sense to me personally. I’m sure someone smarter then me can explain but it just doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

I've mentioned before the media have on the whole been terrible during this pandemic. There are also a load of experts wheeled out, some sounding positive and some appearing to want us all locked indoors and everything shut forever.

Mentally it is starting to take it's toll on a lot of people. I understand some posters saying their partner/kids are doing their head in but a lot live alone. In normal times that is okay, you can go out and socialise, visit family and friends etcetera, have an outlet. That has been taken away. Phone calls and the internet are a poor substitute for real human interaction.

The media, as always, have been a disgrace during the pandemic. They are constantly looking to be contrary with anything that’s been said or actioned. They purposely antagonise the population and stir up fear or anger or impatience.

The way they questioned why we were not in lockdown when we weren’t in lockdown, then immediately queried whether lockdown was the right thing to do and immediately asked when we were coming out of lockdown, only to then question whether coming out of lockdown was the right thing to do and when we might go back into lockdown in the future... The very day we went into lockdown on 4th January, they were asking when we will be coming out of it... It just whips up emotion in the general public and people get swept along with it and all they do is question anything that happens.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

They are reporting links this morning of blood clots to AZ . it was difficult to report side effects because the site was set up extremely difficult.
in the end I tried the doctor, and the dentist to report side effects

Dentist?

 

[paulchapo]

The media, as always, have been a disgrace during the pandemic. They are constantly looking to be contrary with anything that’s been said or actioned. They purposely antagonise the population and stir up fear or anger or impatience.

The way they questioned why we were not in lockdown when we weren’t in lockdown, then immediately queried whether lockdown was the right thing to do and immediately asked when we were coming out of lockdown, only to then question whether coming out of lockdown was the right thing to do and when we might go back into lockdown in the future... The very day we went into lockdown on 4th January, they were asking when we will be coming out of it... It just whips up emotion in the general public and people get swept along with it and all they do is question anything that happens.

Yes I totally agree. They have upped people's fears and anxiety levels to such an extent which for vulnerable people could push them over the edge. Early on in the pandemic I stopped watching press conferences and the media and got information from some very knowledgeable posters here. As a result I felt a lot better. I don't think they realise the effect they can have on people's mental health, there again I don't think they care less.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

No it isn’t. “no earlier than 21 June, the government hopes to be in a position to remove all legal limits on social contact.” They’ve never once said this is set in stone, it’s a plan, but a flexible one. The word “hopes” should give you an indication of what they mean. If they find that there are situations that might need to be amended for the health of the nation, then they will introduce them alongside lifting of restrictions.

Jonathan Van-Tam said on 3rd December last year that we will likely be distancing and mask wearing in Winter 21/22 and beyond. People just need to fucking calm down, take a step back and understand what your hyperbole looks like to everyone else. People who get themselves all worked up are the sort of people who stir idiots into doing the wrong things and taking us back some steps, because they get swept along by hyperbolic language and emotions and run along with it in idiocy and rebellion.

Health of the nation indeed. Every public health principle has been abandoned and Covid is the only game in town. Truth is, if you’re under 60 and in reasonable health Covid is no real risk (compared to life in general) but we are writing off a whole generation of people to fight a single disease which is not a reasonable strategy, in my opinion. Locking down and mask wearing is not doing much to control the spread of this, but it’s making everything else a whole lot worse.
Decades of reversing worldwide poverty has gone. Over 700,000 in the U.K. pushed into poverty with up to 150 million worldwide. Poverty will kill many, many times more than Covid will ever do and we’ve lost sight of that. It’s really not encouraging idiots or being hyperbolic, it’s just asking for some balance of risk when addressing the health of this and other nations.

 

[RobMCFC]

Health of the nation indeed. Every public health principle has been abandoned and Covid is the only game in town. Truth is, if you’re under 60 and in reasonable health Covid is no real risk (compared to life in general) but we are writing off a whole generation of people to fight a single disease which is not a reasonable strategy, in my opinion. Locking down and mask wearing is not doing much to control the spread of this, but it’s making everything else a whole lot worse.
Decades of reversing worldwide poverty has gone. Over 700,000 in the U.K. pushed into poverty with up to 150 million worldwide. Poverty will kill many, many times more than Covid will ever do and we’ve lost sight of that. It’s really not encouraging idiots or being hyperbolic, it’s just asking for some balance of risk when addressing the health of this and other nations.

Locking down and mask wearing is definitely doing a lot to control the spread of this virus - I don't see how you could argue otherwise. However, I agree with your point about it being the only game in town. It is disgusting how large numbers of cancer patients, and sufferers of other physical and mental health conditions, have been abandoned during the pandemic.

I think the speed we are coming out of lockdown is correct, but I think people have to think long and hard about how they interact over the next 12 months. Full normality is probably 2 or 3 years away.

 

[Marvin]

In a fit and healthy 23 year old? Love to see the evidence you’re basing that on.

I don't have any data but imo 30 clots from tens of millions is very low risk indeed whereas we've been inundated with stories about cytokine storms, long Covid and all kinds of inflammations with Covid-19 i.e. activity associated with 'sticky blood'.

We are though talking about a specific type of clotting event with AZN vaccine not clotting in general.

Given we have Pfizer and (Moderna in a fortnight), it seems possible that if there is a very low risk of clots in young people then they will be directed to Pfizer and Moderna whilst older people continue with Astrazeneca.

 

[BlueAnorak]

This has been a recurring theme throughout the pandemic.

People willfully ignoring or misrepresenting predictions or odds.

Have you read it?
The assumptions SAGE use are totally, utterly completely wrong
Such a bad outcome can only occur with a new variant yet to rear it's ugly head. The known variants just don't cause it. And we will bectesting to check for those.
As a report garbage in - garbage out.

 

[03 March 2002]

Do you see the mass LFT programme being robust though?

Personally I can't see a huge uptake, a lot of people don't want the risk of isolating based on a test that has a lower chance of being correct that the regular PCR one, expressly one where it's shown that the less expert the tester (in this case it'll usually be Joe bloggs) then the much higher the rate of error. And that's both ways, missing out the real positive cases too.

I do have that creeping feeling that the mass test initiative is a bit of a vanity project, and a huge huge misappropriation of public money

They obviously have their flaws but I think some testing is better than none. Realistically if they stop even 1 outbreak it may be worth it. Most importantly the Gov. needs to support people taking them seriously and sticking to the rules.