Coronavirus (2021) thread

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Churchlawtonblue said:
Agree it has the potential to be very significant in the UK, and people should get vaxxed asap. But do you also agree it has the potential to not be significant based on the state of immunity and the much higher vaccination rate in the UK compared to SA?
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Yup. As far as I can tell, the data we have doesn't at all allow a confident prediction of the impact on UK population.

There's everything out there from total doom-mongers to outright denial.

The confluence of
- biological rationale for some immune escape (number and nature of mutations)
- rapid rise in SA
- genetic evolution of the variant suggesting very recent (Sept/Oct) first emergence

All point towards a potentially significant impact. But as you rightly point out, that remains to be tested in a highly vaccinated population.

The first data on UK prevalence is just starting to emerge. How that grows over the next couple of weeks should clarify a lot how serious or not this will be, I think?

 
grunge said:
Yep. They changed the vaccine to allow for better storage.

for reference

Storage requirements for each COVID-19 Vaccine

Specific requirements must be adhered to for each vaccine as per the MHRA information for health care professionals. We've summarised key requirements.
www.sps.nhs.uk www.sps.nhs.uk
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Did they actually change it?

I recall that when everyone was focusing on the very low refrigeration temp needed, someone knowledgeable on here said they default to that super low storage temp and it would probably get approved for storage at fridge temperatures after testing.
 
domalino said:
Did they actually change it?

I recall that when everyone was focusing on the very low refrigeration temp needed, someone knowledgeable on here said they default to that super low storage temp and it would probably get approved for storage at fridge temperatures after testing.
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I'm fairly sure that at the start of the vaccination programme that the Pfizer vaccine couldn't be stored for a month in the fridge after defrosting in line with the latest instructions. I had a Pfizer booster a couple of weeks ago at a local chemist but at the start of the vaccination campaign it was only given out at the main hospitals where they had the ultra low temperature storage facilities.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
That’s not right. You can store Pfizer for 31 days at between 2-8 degrees, so you can get it anywhere that does vaccinations. GP and pharmacists will keep it in fridge and they rarely have more than a weeks stock and get up to 2 deliveries a week. Some hospitals and Mass Vaccination Centres can store it frozen, for up to 9 months, but that doesn’t happen either, for obvious reasons.
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I had my first Pfizer jab in May at a small local community theatre in Stockport...so if they can do Pfizer, anywhere can surely. Had my second at a chemists in Partington.
 
Really interesting thread on omicron, concluding that immune escape rather than inherent transmissibility is probably more likely to explain the SA spread, but both are possible (and some of each).



Note that immune escape isn't a binary thing - it would mean prior immunity from infection or vaccination somewhat less effective, not ineffective. And therefore makes getting vaxxed or boosted even more important.
 
Clarifying that it is indeed, the readout of more stability studies rather than a change in the vaccine makeup that enabled easier storage of the Pfizer vaccine: press release from Pfizer earlier this year

Pfizer and BioNTech Submit COVID-19 Vaccine Stability Data at Standard Freezer Temperature to the U.S. FDA | Pfizer

NEW YORK and MAINZ, GERMANY, February 19, 2021 — Pfizer Inc. (NYSE: PFE) and BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX) today announced the submission of new data to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) demonstrating the stability of their COVID-19 vaccine when stored at -25°C to -15°C (-13°F to 5°F)...
www.pfizer.com www.pfizer.com
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Nobody knows. Speculation in both directions abounds. Assume unchanged until there's firm data would be my view FWIW.
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But that's what's important. There's real world data but there's also science based on genome and an understanding of the immune mechanism. One informs the other.
 
Marvin said:
But that's what's important. There's real world data but there's also science based on genome and an understanding of the immune mechanism. One informs the other.
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Whether it's important or not, we still don't know.

Also, I wouldn't agree that it is necessarily more important. The same degree of change in transmissibility has potentially much more impact than in severity of disease, because the peak of a wave can change in orders of magnitude. COVID is a big problem not because of its severity (IFR ~1%) but rather its doubling time (~just 3 days for the ancestral strain).
 
M18CTID said:
Someone pass me the world's smallest violin:

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I'm double-jabbed. Getting my booster shot on Monday. Feel a bit disappointed and uneasy whenever I encounter anti-vaxxers in life and have been really disheartened by how many vaccine conspiracies I've seen this year.

But this is an utterly bonkers move.
 
youngbob said:
I'm double-jabbed. Getting my booster shot on Monday. Feel a bit disappointed and uneasy whenever I encounter anti-vaxxers in life and have been really disheartened by how many vaccine conspiracies I've seen this year.

But this is an utterly bonkers move.
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I'm not entirely in favour of it myself but given the amount of lies and misinformation the anti-vaxx clowns have been peddling, I'm struggling to muster up even a modicum of sympathy. Plus this should sort out the real hardcore anti-vaxxers from the pretend ones who are just being arsey fuckers because they don't like being asked to do something.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Why?

(I'm on the fence in this myself)
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Well, ignoring the principles of the thing for a second, this will absolutely set off riots and create further division in Germany. It'll be a fun few days for news crews and police forces there.

But coming back to the principles of the thing, it's scary to create what is essentially now a two-tiered society in Germany, especially along lines that concern peoples' private medical information. If someone has made the choice not to get the vaccine, they should have the right to make that choice without their freedoms being limited, especially when 70% of Germany's adult population are already vaccinated. If someone doesn't want to get vaccinated, I'll be disappointed with them, but (especially in western and central Europe) there are enough people jabbed now that we can pick up the slack for those who didn't want to. Vaccine efforts should be about striving for a common good -- the majority doing their part so that everyone can carry on as normal.

And who's to say that it'll stop at those who are unvaccinated? What if there's people in Germany currently saying "Well, I've had two jabs and I'm willing to take my chances with COVID now, so I won't have the booster". Will non-boostered people be locked out of public life until they've been injected a third or fourth time, like a good, obedient citizen? This is a government wielding far too much power over its citizenry, and it's doing so by guilt and in the name of "protecting public health". Last year, things like lockdowns were probably necessary and so, in a bit of a panic, we opted for them. But I remember being told almost a year ago that "we won't get back to normal until the vulnerable are vaccinated". A year on and we're still being told "you'll only get X when you do Y" or "if you don't do X then Y will happen".

So yeah, bonkers and scary move from Germany's government.
 
M18CTID said:
I'm not entirely in favour of it myself but given the amount of lies and misinformation the anti-vaxx clowns have been peddling, I'm struggling to muster up even a modicum of sympathy. Plus this should sort out the real hardcore anti-vaxxers from the pretend ones who are just being arsey fuckers because they don't like being asked to do something.
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I'm fundamentally against being mandated to put something into my body by any government, but then perhaps I'm being naive in my hopes than humans will ultimately choose to do the right thing, which in this case, clearly, is getting vaccinated.

As you said, the lies and misinformation has been, frankly, obscene, so whilst I hate the idea down to my core, I completely understand it.

I stand by the statement i made months ago about government sanctioned segregation, two-tiered societies, and the potential for abuse in future, though.

Been a long time since i've been this conflicted about something.
 
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