COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[mcfc1632]

Even though they have their own thread to discuss it and slag the govt to the hearts content , they are like a virus ....

I can only assume they have nobody to argue with on the politics thread

I have answered some posts on this thread seeking to help the understanding of people about where the responsibilities that I keep seeing being used to criticise the government. This should help them apportion criticism to those actually responsible.

This should help all those that wish to genuinely understand - although be inconvenient for those that are just seeking to be Captain Hindsight for agenda reasons. I have no axe to grind or political bias either way. I have only ever really shown support for a Tory government in recent months about Brexit - I have slagged it off for years before that.

I have only replied to posts on this thread because this is where I have found these comments or questions.

As you say - further discussion should really take place in the political thread

 

[mcfc1632]

blah blah blah. The pandemic plan is there for a reason. It needs to be competent, current and have the correct oversight. When it is tested, results need to be acted on. Pandemics are always on the top 2 or 3 risks on any national risk register. Anyone that cant agree with that simple truth is either an idiot or is deliberately trying to deflect. This government might count themselves as unlucky to have to deal with it but that is no reason for allowing them to deny their responsibility.

Good post until the last line - which my recent post(s) should identify where to apportion blame

I do not want to be an apologist for the government - but I can imagine that they will have been shocked and more than a little pissed off with DHSC and in particular PHE - to a lesser extent the NHS Board - as events have unfolded.

Where I place a level of blame on the government is - to use contracting jargon - the speediness in which they effectively exercised their 'Step-In-Rights'.

I think that they should have 'stepped-in' and took control a couple of weeks earlier - but that does not excuse those in DHSC, PHE and NHS that should have been undertaking strategic planning over recent years and procuring PPE in the late 2019 months.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

'Your' government? It is 'our' government even if you didn't vote for it. It is 'our' government's experts trying to guide us and 'our' country that is coming apart at the seams and 'our' families and friends that are dying in this nightmare. Trying to engage in ancient Brexit feuds at a time like this is strictly for Momentum duped juveniles and I'm genuinely shocked you are posting such rubbish.

Oh dear. Do you ever actually read what’s posted or do you pick a word here, a word there, and then pick a few words from your usual 100 words and just bluster your reply? I call them ‘your’ government because you cloud all your posts with that view. You also seem a tad obsessed with Momentum and seem to be confusing me with someone who supports them.

Also, it’s not reigniting a Brexit feud, it’s just saying that your view seems to be that ‘our’ government and ‘our’ government experts advised everyone, at the time of the referendum, to vote remain and you thought they should be challenged and questioned. After that many didn’t believe what they were being told. On this issue, you’re suggesting that we should now just shut up, accept everything we’re fed and do as we are told, without asking whether the medicine is killing the patient.
A strange view of a small government, open society.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Good post until the last line

At least you know where to apportion blame now

It is clear that overriding responsibility lies with the Department of Health and Care and specifically the Secretary of State (unless I have misunderstood the documents you posted).

 

[mcfc1632]

Thank you for putting that material together. Much appreciated.

From my perspective and experience, when things go fundamentally wrong (as I believe they have), it is seldom or ever one person or even a group of individuals 'fault'. It is almost always an 'organisational' problem. From what you have provided, it is (maybe naturally) difficult to pick out specifics for pandemic planning although it is obviously the overarching responsibility of the Department of Health and Care:

• setting direction: we anticipate the future and lead debate ensuring we protect and improve global and domestic health

At first glance, they have governance of risk in place with a risk audit committee which no doubt has ownership of its own risk register (including pandemic at the very top). Interestingly there is no risk function on the top line of the Health England organogram you posted. Neither is there any of the 30 odd advisory groups looking at anything to do with pandemic management.

I have only spent a very little time on it so may well have questions. If I do I will post them on the political thread. For now though, the material will certainly improve my understanding of the model which was what I originally asked for so cheers for that.

As you look further into things - and that will be difficult because of the complexity of different parts of the Health Sector Body - (NICE and the CQC roles are also important - as are the various parts of the NHS that control Commissioning - and that is complex in itself) - you will find that if one organisation must be held 'to blame' it is PHE which is why I linked their framework of responsibilities that they discharge for DHSC and onwards and upwards to the SoS and PM.

With your commercial management experience you will be familiar with Step-In-Rights and how they fit within contracts.

Exercising those rights is essentially what happened when the SoS 'stepped-in' in March. It is also why it is entirely appropriate that PHE are at all the briefings - they should be as the prevention and management of what has occurred is their responsibility.

People miss that and just assume the government are hiding behind experts - personally I have been pleased to see Hancock not holding then out to dry and being collective.

 

[kaz7]

The number of people who have died with coronavirus in hospitals in England has risen by 327 to 21,180.

In Northern Ireland, five more people have died with COVID-19, bringing the total number of deaths to 381.

A further 14 people have died in Wales, taking the total number of deaths there to 983, Public Health Wales said

Scotland 12

 

[blueparrot]

The number of people who have died with coronavirus in hospitals in England has risen by 327 to 21,180.

In Northern Ireland, five more people have died with COVID-19, bringing the total number of deaths to 381.

A further 14 people have died in Wales, taking the total number of deaths there to 983, Public Health Wales said



Scotland to come

12 Scotland, ICU dropped below 100, only to 99 and make go back above tomorrow but somehow feels like a significant point considering we were above 220 just a couple of weeks ago.

The latest figures released by the Scottish government show that 12,097 people have tested positive for Covid-19, an increase of 170 from yesterday.

There are 1,666 patients in hospital with a suspected or confirmed case (down eight), with 99 being treated in intensive care (down nine).

A further 12 people who tested positive have died, taking the total to 1,571 deaths in Scotland by that measure.

*Data published by National Records of Scotland (NRS), which include all cases where Covid-19 is mentioned on a death certificate, shows the number of deaths linked to Covid-19 is much higher than the daily totals.

 

[George Hannah]

Oh dear. Do you ever actually read what’s posted or do you pick a word here, a word there, and then pick a few words from your usual 100 words and just bluster your reply? I call them ‘your’ government because you cloud all your posts with that view. You also seem a tad obsessed with Momentum and seem to be confusing me with someone who supports them.

Also, it’s not reigniting a Brexit feud, it’s just saying that your view seems to be that ‘our’ government and ‘our’ government experts advised everyone, at the time of the referendum, to vote remain and you thought they should be challenged and questioned. After that many didn’t believe what they were being told. On this issue, you’re suggesting that we should now just shut up, accept everything we’re fed and do as we are told, without asking whether the medicine is killing the patient.
A strange view of a small government, open society.

It's a simple question of judgement friend. Brexit is a political issue and was debated as such. The referendum invited the electorate to choose. Having done so it was a pity the losing lobby didn't accept the result and we had to endure another 3 years of delay.

We are now in the midst of an unprecedented national and global emergency where criticisms of our government's actions need to be measured and constructive. Sadly those qualities are not a feature of your posts.

 

[burnley blue mcfc]

Pressure growing on the gov according to sky news to bring us out of lockdown? I wonder if boris will buckle on thur and agree to it?

 

[ganganvince]

Pressure growing on the gov according to sky news to bring us out of lockdown? I wonder if boris will buckle on thur and agree to it?

Think he will give a timetable to relax a few things conditional on tests being met.