Covid and travel discussion

ctwrd said:
The point was clear: when does the pandemic end?

with the current crop of advisors and governors it looks like never. The parameters keep changing.

as to selfish wankers, as per my post in the covid thread, people like you make me feel sick. There are millions employed in the tourism trade whose lives depend on it who have had no financial support. You can take the piss out of those who want to go on holiday all you like but your disregard for the lives of those aforementioned people in the tourism trade is disgusting.
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I would rather people didnt die
 
ctwrd said:
The point was clear: when does the pandemic end?

with the current crop of advisors and governors it looks like never. The parameters keep changing.

as to selfish wankers, as per my post in the covid thread, people like you make me feel sick. There are millions employed in the tourism trade whose lives depend on it who have had no financial support. You can take the piss out of those who want to go on holiday all you like but your disregard for the lives of those aforementioned people in the tourism trade is disgusting.
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What a self obsessed selfish view.
 
ctwrd said:
So just to be clear, you want lockdown until every adult in the world is vaccinated?

no need for the use of language. It’s possible to debate without throwing insults about.
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No, I want a lockdown until such time as it’s deemed safe for open border travel again. I say this as someone that has not been able to see my own mother since feb 14th last year, the day of my fathers funeral as the country I live in won’t allow tourist visas.

Now whether “safe” entails x amount being vaccinated or that you are tested AND have to show a vaccine card/passport/certificate then I don’t really care. But cross border travel saw it go from 1 case to 10 to 10,000 to millions in a couple of months so I’m going to go out on a limb and trust the career epidemiologists on this one no matter how strongly I feel about wanting unfettered holidays and access to see my own nearest and dearest, because I want the pandemic to end sooner rather than later.
 
SWP's back said:
iTs mY hUman RIghT to Go to BeniDorm
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Yes it is your human right to go to BeNidorm if Boris allows external travel in May, but the person who's traveling has to also feel it's safe. So all we can do is follow the science, follow the governments guidelines/advice and finally make our own choice with the data available.
 
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Blue Maverick said:
At what point will they stop testing etc I wonder because as everyone gets the jab it becomes similar to flu then doesn’t it, there will be deaths from Covid 19 every year like flu so when do they stop and it just becomes like that. Going off current rates of inoculations everyone should be done by September, then probably boosters every year. Someone at some point is going to have to say its acceptable deaths as they have with flu, aren’t they?
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At some point I think that will happen yes.
 
SWP's back said:
No, I want a lockdown until such time as it’s deemed safe for open border travel again. I say this as someone that has been able to see my own mother since feb 14th last year, the day of my fathers funeral as the country I live in won’t allow tourist visas.

Now whether “safe” entails x amount being vaccinated or that you are tested AND have to show a vaccine card/passport/certificate then I don’t really care. But cross border travel saw it go from 1 case to 10 to 10,000 to millions in a couple of months so I’m going to go out on a limb and trust the career epidemiologists on this one no matter how strongly I feel about wanting unfettered holidays and access to see my own nearest and dearest, because I want the pandemic to end sooner rather than later.
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Do you not agree that it would be a good step for “compliance” and public confidence and more importantly transparency for the epidemiologists to set out the framework of what the data would need to show for it to be deemed “safe”.

“safe” needs to be defined because right now no one has any idea.
 
Two Gun Bob said:
Yes it is your human right to go to BeNidorm if Boris allows external travel in May, but the person who's traveling has to also feel it's safe too. So all we can do is follow the science, follow the governments guidelines/advice and finally make our own choice with the data available.
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No argument from me on that.
 
ctwrd said:
Do you not agree that it would be a good step for “compliance” and public confidence and more importantly transparency for the epidemiologists to set out the framework of what the data would need to show for it to be deemed “safe”.

“safe” needs to be defined because right now no one has any idea.
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It would be lovely to know that. To be able to see, taste and touch the light at the end of the tunnel, yes. I assume they are wary of committing to such a framework as this little fucker of a virus is mutating faster than gizmo with a takeaway at 1am and they’re worried that an increase in cases could lead to a vaccine resistant strain with a mortality rate similar to that of 1918-20.

So they’ll study the data. The data will lead the formulation of the guidance which will allow the framework you want. But there can’t be transparency 6 months ahead of the time when they know what they’ll be dealing with at that stage.
 
SWP's back said:
It would be lovely to know that. To be able to see, taste and touch the light at the end of the tunnel, yes. I assume they are wary of committing to such a framework as this little fucker of a virus is mutating faster than gizmo with a takeaway at 1am and they’re worried that an increase in cases could lead to a vaccine resistant strain with a mortality rate similar to that of 1918-20.

So they’ll study the data. The data will lead the formulation of the guidance which will allow the framework you want. But there can’t be transparency 6 months ahead of the time when they know what they’ll be dealing with at that stage.
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I don’t see how they cannot set out the parameters. What when they look at the data will they accept? They don’t need the data to know what they want the data to say.
 
I don't think people understand how the data works. We have masses of real life events that provide the input. We then can with very high confidence predict the probabilities of a range of outcomes.

There's no absolute certainty in any of it, but it's that damned close at some points in some ways that making decisions is pretty straightforward. Boris has learned the hard way. We can keep pretending optimism keeps the virus at bay. It really doesn't. The virus doesn't care. It doesn't think or feel at all. It's just a chemical.

We're looking at the same sort of decision we had when initially deciding if to go into lockdown. We left it, and it was worse than it needed to have been. Then we got impatient and decided to come out ASAP - leaving Manchester and the rest of the north fucked for most of the rest of the year. Then in December, we saw it comin g the whole time, and kept wishing it away. Leading to this lockdown and the tragedy of January.

We can do this forever, if people want. But a scientist can tell you there is another way.

Do what is neccesary to make the 'worst' outcomes very unlikely, do it ASAP and do it all for as long as you need to. Or don't, and then see what happens. You'll end up with stricter restrictions, for longer, just to avoid an inevitable catastrophe. It can literally go on forever. You shouldn't need to feel the air rushing from the oncoming train before you get off the tracks.

It's like the council tax bill. Payment is inevitable. You can wish it away as long as you like. But the bill keeps getting bigger all the time.
 
I've got a few days booked in Portugal in month 10 this year, honestly not sure if I'll get there, because of the rest of Europe being so far behind the UK with vaccine program. I also think everyone who's planning a holiday this year ought to take it in the UK. The economy will benefit as will the population not encouraging the virus into our shores.
As a bonus we might get The Euros during the summer because we are the only nation who can hold the tournament safely albeit with fans living in the county and not allowing any overseas visitors
 
mackenzie said:
Really hope we can go abroad this year. Its the one thing that now gets me through every shitty week at work.
If we can't then I've suggested a City break to the other half. Maybe Edinburgh or York. Somewhere with a bit of history.
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How can you mention City and History in the same paragraph ????
 
BimboBob said:
Why not?
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Because working full time, there’s only so many days off you can take a year, and we usually fill them with trips to Spain, Florida and other European city destinations.

Don’t get me wrong - I was born and bred in Manchester and have always lived here. I had plenty of happy UK holidays as a kid, but whilst I can afford to, I like to travel abroad on holidays as often as I can. I find that I enjoy things far better when I can leave for somewhere abroad.
 
I stay with an old friend in Amsterdam 2 or 3 times a year..
She doesn’t go out much and the money I give her to stay in her apartment really helps her.. So if we have both had the jab I am going to try to get out there in June, or sooner if poss . If this means having to take a PCR test that would be ok with me ..
 
ctwrd said:
How to prove my point.

I don’t work in the tourism industry.

I am up 30% year on year as a consequence of the pandemic. It has served me well financially.
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WTF?
ctwrd said:
Do you not agree that it would be a good step for “compliance” and public confidence and more importantly transparency for the epidemiologists to set out the framework of what the data would need to show for it to be deemed “safe”.

“safe” needs to be defined because right now no one has any idea.
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Another good step would be for some mardarses to take their blinkers off.

You do know there are serious variants that haven’t made it here yet? (Against which there are doubts about vaccine efficacy.) And that some of our major neighbours are entering a third lockdown? And that many potential destinations have far lower vaccination rates than us?

Which bits don’t you understand?
 
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