Crumpsall Synagogue Attack - two people confirmed dead, one inadvertently shot by police along with the suspect

mexico1970 said:
He was dressed in dark clothes and those clothes didn't strike me as the kind of clothes I have seen most Jews wearing in the area.

It's fair to say he stood out.
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Thanks.

So the two victims were struck by police behind a closed door is what I'm getting from the information given to me.

Without too much criticism, I'm struggling to work out why police police would open fire from such a position? In my head, the police are the barrier, not the door. So maybe the perp was shot at the door and bullets went through when I unwrap the situation in my head?

That's the only scenario that makes any sense to me.
 
pride in battle said:
Must have been a bad shot ffs
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When the SAS and other special forces clear buildings and deal with terrorist incidents, they often instruct people to lie down on the floor with hands clearly visible and spread out.
Anyone who doesn't follow these instructions risks being shot by the SF or armed police.
If I was ever in that situation ( God forbid) , I would lie as low on the floor as possible,and try to get behind some sort of cover.
Obviously a concrete wall is best, and a solid double brick wall is very good. Breeze block is easily penetrated by rifle bullets, as are wooden/ plastic panels and doors.
And if taking cover behind a vehicle,best to squat down behind the engine block and the 2 front wheels.
Car doors and windows are also easily defeated by modern rifle bullets.
 
Eccles Blue said:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemöller
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He was right then and he's right now.

And somewhere in there he would have added "Then they came for the Palestinians." Most folk try to live up to the old naive cry "Can't we ALL just get along?" but unfortunately it has the obvious answer.
 
LangleyBlue1970 said:
It’s already gone as you’d expect on social media. From the police being the hero’s yesterday for their rapid response, to fuck the police now this information has come out. And that’s putting a timid slant on the comments.

Utter twats
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and the MSM will be wetting themselves at the endless opportunties it now gives them over the next days/weeks..should police be armed? are police shite? blah blah...when none of them would ever have the courage to put themselves in that situation.

as i said earlier it will be years before these officers can return to 'normal'-if ever. None of us know enough detail as to what happened yesterday. personally i was investigated for 2 years for an incident in custody when i was in bed when it happened..this will have long lasting effects for everyone involved.

people watch dramas on tv and think its real life-real life is messy and chaotic.
 
From the images of the attacker that have been circulated, it looks like he was stood in front of a door and people can be seen through the windows barricading the community in. When the attacker was shot, he hadn't moved too far from this position, so presumably some of the bullets entered the doorway and struck the people on the other side?

Extremely tragic. You'd think there's training for positioning in these situations, but at the same time the pressure would have been astronomical, what with the potential bomb threat too.
 
Bigga said:
Thanks.

So the two victims were struck by police behind a closed door is what I'm getting from the information given to me.

Without too much criticism, I'm struggling to work out why police police would open fire from such a position? In my head, the police are the barrier, not the door. So maybe the perp was shot at the door and bullets went through when I unwrap the situation in my head?

That's the only scenario that makes any sense to me.
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rest assured all that will be unpicked-but its not something we need or should be informed of as a running commentary

thankfully we aren't america-my force has never ever discharged a firearm-its still so rare for the police in this country-you could've paid me ten times my wage and I still wouldn't ever carry a firearm...
 
Just want to express my sympathy to all the family and friends, of the people who were involved in the terrible events of yesterday. My thoughts are with the entire Jewish community of Manchester. In my previous job I had dealings with the Jewish community of Crumpsall, always found them respectful and think they just wanted to be left alone to get on with their lives. RIP to the deceased and any fellow blues suffering today.
 
Bigga said:
What "angle" am I going for? I asked the question. It was answered. The above poster to this post speculated something I didn't.

I won't have my words twisted as it has been several times before.
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First of all, knowing the area and that particular congregation well, these are overwhelmingly just ordinary, mainstream Jews who you wouldn't particularly recognise if you saw them in the street or even at games. They dress like you or I would. The more religious Jews, in places like Broughton, are definitely very distinguishable by their overt appearance but apart from the Rabbi (and even he's relatively 'modern') they don't use this synagogue.

Second, bullets ricochet or can pass through the initial target (although they'll slow down usually if they do unless they're high velocity and the target is close). I think the police use the H&K MP5, which is lethal up to 200m. The range yesterday was probably less than 15m so the chances are the bullet will pass through the target, or be deflected off a bone. I'd guess that caused the injury to a third-party.
 
Bigga said:
Thanks.

So the two victims were struck by police behind a closed door is what I'm getting from the information given to me.

Without too much criticism, I'm struggling to work out why police police would open fire from such a position? In my head, the police are the barrier, not the door. So maybe the perp was shot at the door and bullets went through when I unwrap the situation in my head?

That's the only scenario that makes any sense to me.
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Yep sounds right ?
 
mcfcpride said:
From the images of the attacker that have been circulated, it looks like he was stood in front of a door and people can be seen through the windows barricading the community in. When the attacker was shot, he hadn't moved too far from this position, so presumably some of the bullets entered the doorway and struck the people on the other side?

Extremely tragic. You'd think there's training for positioning in these situations, but at the same time the pressure would have been astronomical, what with the potential bomb threat too.
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firearms officers are prob the best trained in the force-nothing replicates real life though-it might well be officers had reasonable cause to believe that he posed such a risk (the belt) either by what the suspect was saying or their own viewpoint that they had no choice at that exact moment.
 
Gray said:
The SAS would not have fired at a person in front of a wooden door with people behind it.
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and if the suspect had detonated a bomb?

thankfully we don't have armed soldiers on our streets.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
First of all, knowing the area and that particular congregation well, these are overwhelmingly just ordinary, mainstream Jews who you wouldn't particularly recognise if you saw them in the street or even at games. They dress like you or I would. The more religious Jews, in places like Broughton, are definitely very distinguishable by their overt appearance but apart from the Rabbi (and even he's relatively 'modern') they don't use this synagogue.

Second, bullets ricochet or can pass through the initial target (although they'll slow down usually if they do unless they're high velocity and the target is close). I think the police use the H&K MP5, which is lethal up to 200m. The range yesterday was probably less than 15m so the chances are the bullet will pass through the target, or be deflected off a bone. I'd guess that caused the injury to a third-party.
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Okay, cheers.
 
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