CSKA Moscow v City - Post match discussion

[Len Rum]

Javi Garcia is coming in for criticism again today. He has his weaknesses, at centre back certainly, but none of our back four look half the players they were last season. Nor did Vinnie in the Villa game. I think some of this will remedy itself as the season progresses, but not all of it will. City supporters "of a nervous disposition" will have to get used to the sight of a vulnerable backline, and, probably, to City conceding more goals than in the recent past. That's the way Pellegrini plays it, and he's never promised us anything different. It was obvious from the earliest, at home to Newcastle and away at Cardiff - we get more players into and around the opposition's box than we ever used to under Mancini. It's true at the Etihad, it was true in Cardiff and Birmingham: we've seen that it's true in Plsen and Moscow. I bet it will be seen to be true in Munich. The result is that City always seem likely to score and are leading the PL when it comes to scoring goals. We frequently see Ya Ya and Fernandinho getting forward, buzzing around the other team's 18 yard line. The result is that we don't play a DM. There is no player who watches the stable door, and certainly no NDJ with the sole task of destroying any "enemy" who got anywhere near our 18 yard line! So we are vulnerable to the long high clearance simply because, if we don't get in a good clearing header, there aren't as many City players to get the loose ball. Our back four also finds that there are times when there is no obstacle to the other team getting the ball and running straight at us, and with space to get a good head of steam up. I think Pellegrini's calculation is that our players are likely to take more of the chances we create than the other team's are to profit from our sometimes being left short at the back. So far he's been right, apart from Villa Park where everything went as well as it could for Villa and wrong for us, and at Cardiff, where we didn't know what we were doing at corners. He was right again last night. I think we can all recall instances of Barca in their pomp looking ragged as they tried to get back to cover a break. No top team is different - even Munich.

It's too early to say that Pellegrini has got it right. The defeats to two of the weakest teams in the division Villa and Cardiff were not flukes or aberrations , They were a direct failure of our high risk strategy of we'll create and convert a lot of our chances to offset our defensive weaknesses. And don't forget we were rocking against the Hammers at 2-1 despite having dominated and again last night in the final ten minutes. If we continue to defend like last night we will get taken apart by the better teams and even the lesser teams will always fancy their chances with a quick punt over the top as a quick and easy way to score against us.

-- Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:54 pm --

We won

Yes and we lost against Villa and Cardiff.

All three goals against Cardiff had very little to do with high line. A cross that fell to opposition player and poor marking at corners. At Villa, one goal was offside,a free kick and a long punt where our defenders had a big cock up. Some people seem to really want MP to fail, very little evidence so far to back up that claim.

You're forgetting that despite our domination against Cardiff in the first half they had the three best opportunities of the half all created by a long ball played out of their defence which caught out our high line.

 

[nmc]

At Cardiff we seemed to be playing a high line - just for the hell of it - and it simply didn't work. At West Ham we played a high line but supported it with the forwards and the midfield pressing very hard - we took the ball off West Ham players consistently in dangerous positions and forced mistakes throughout the game. It has taken time but you can start to see a change in our style of play.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

Javi Garcia is coming in for criticism again today. He has his weaknesses, at centre back certainly, but none of our back four look half the players they were last season. Nor did Vinnie in the Villa game. I think some of this will remedy itself as the season progresses, but not all of it will. City supporters "of a nervous disposition" will have to get used to the sight of a vulnerable backline, and, probably, to City conceding more goals than in the recent past. That's the way Pellegrini plays it, and he's never promised us anything different. It was obvious from the earliest, at home to Newcastle and away at Cardiff - we get more players into and around the opposition's box than we ever used to under Mancini. It's true at the Etihad, it was true in Cardiff and Birmingham: we've seen that it's true in Plsen and Moscow. I bet it will be seen to be true in Munich. The result is that City always seem likely to score and are leading the PL when it comes to scoring goals. We frequently see Ya Ya and Fernandinho getting forward, buzzing around the other team's 18 yard line. The result is that we don't play a DM. There is no player who watches the stable door, and certainly no NDJ with the sole task of destroying any "enemy" who got anywhere near our 18 yard line! So we are vulnerable to the long high clearance simply because, if we don't get in a good clearing header, there aren't as many City players to get the loose ball. Our back four also finds that there are times when there is no obstacle to the other team getting the ball and running straight at us, and with space to get a good head of steam up. I think Pellegrini's calculation is that our players are likely to take more of the chances we create than the other team's are to profit from our sometimes being left short at the back. So far he's been right, apart from Villa Park where everything went as well as it could for Villa and wrong for us, and at Cardiff, where we didn't know what we were doing at corners. He was right again last night. I think we can all recall instances of Barca in their pomp looking ragged as they tried to get back to cover a break. No top team is different - even Munich.

It's too early to say that Pellegrini has got it right. The defeats to two of the weakest teams in the division Villa and Cardiff were not flukes or aberrations , They were a direct failure of our high risk strategy of we'll create and convert a lot of our chances to offset our defensive weaknesses. And don't forget we were rocking against the Hammers at 2-1 despite having dominated and again last night in the final ten minutes. If we continue to defend like last night we will get taken apart by the better teams and even the lesser teams will always fancy their chances with a quick punt over the top as a quick and easy way to score against us.

The point I'm making is that Pellegrini's football will take risks that we wouldn't have taken under Mancini. Our back four is more exposed, there is sometimes a hole in midfield in front of them. This is the other side of the coin to our greater creativity up front. The result is that we score more and concede more. The idea that we can have a more attacking style but with Mancini's defensive organisation still completely intact is unrealistic. Even when we play this much more open game it is not likely that we are going to score off every chance we make: apart from Messi and Ronaldo one goal every other game is still mighty good going even for top strikers. But it's no more realistic to fear that other teams' strikers will take anything like every chance they create. We can, and will, be able to look back on any game and say we could have lost if (say) Grant Holt had been Messi or Doumbia or Musa had been Ronaldo, but they aren't! I think Pellegrini believes that our squad is of such quality that,if we open the game up, we'll win many more games than we lose. Last season, and even when we won the title, we looked frustrated by quite mediocre teams who "parked the bus". We haven't really had that problem so far, because we've got more men forward and always looked good for goals, but there can be a price. At Cardiff we didn't know what we were doing at corners but that should have been remedied by now. At Villa everything had to go right for Villa and wrong for us - and it did! They got an offside goal, a screamer from a lad who had never scored from a free kick and some dreadful play (by Vinnie) to deal with a routine long ball. Hence, I said that Pellegrini seemed to have got it right "so far. In England we are so much better than other teams that we ought to be getting it right, and the derby was a good example. In Europe there aren't many better, but Bayern seem to be one! And we saw the result of inviting them to play an "open" game! At home Pellegrini will be judged on where we finish in the league. If we win it he will be vindicated, but.... In this respect the game on Sunday will be a good pointer to the strengths (hopefully not the weaknesses) of Pellegrini's approach.

 

[Len Rum]

At Cardiff we seemed to be playing a high line - just for the hell of it - and it simply didn't work. At West Ham we played a high line but supported it with the forwards and the midfield pressing very hard - we took the ball off West Ham players consistently in dangerous positions and forced mistakes throughout the game. It has taken time but you can start to see a change in our style of play.

Agree with you on that but we seemed to revert to the Cardiff shambles at times against Moscow. I'm not against these tactics, it may be a transition thing, the key like you say is forwards and midfielders pressing, sometimes some of our players still let us down in this respect.

 

[Oystercatcher28]

At Cardiff we seemed to be playing a high line - just for the hell of it - and it simply didn't work. At West Ham we played a high line but supported it with the forwards and the midfield pressing very hard - we took the ball off West Ham players consistently in dangerous positions and forced mistakes throughout the game. It has taken time but you can start to see a change in our style of play.

Agree with you on that but we seemed to revert to the Cardiff shambles at times against Moscow. I'm not against these tactics, it may be a transition thing, the key like you say is forwards and midfielders pressing, sometimes some of our players still let us down in this respect.

West Ham never had an out-and-out centre forward at any stage of the game.