D-Day 70th anniversary thread.

[-nibz-]

This was America's involvement until Pearl Harbor

The lend lea$e

 

[Skashion]

This is a totally irrelevant question considering your knowledge in this area but are you a historian?

You seem to have a large knowledge on military history in the 20th century and was just wondering what you do? Again, not a slight on any information you have given or will give, just something intriguing. We've spoken on here and elsewhere for years and it occurred to me that I never actually asked you this.

No, I'm not. Although I have to say how my life has panned out is a total and utter accident. When I was sixteen, I wanted to be an RAF pilot. In order to aide me the A-levels I took were Physics and Computing. I couldn't take History as they clashed with both of those subjects, so I took Politics instead. That course changed my life, as my political awareness began to grow, I began to have moral qualms about what I'd be asked to do as an RAF pilot. I felt I couldn't justify bombing in civilian areas so I began to err away from it. I still had no intention of going to university though. It was mainly the influence of my girlfriend at the time who I then lived with throughout university. If I'd had my choice I'd have taken a history degree instead but because I only have AS-Level History, that wasn't possible. I did do a number of what were basically history modules - that were taught wholly by the history department rather than the politics department. My knowledge of the Second World War though, is not at all from education though. I'm self-educated in the subject. I believe I have told you this before though. I seem to recall that you have asked and I have told you.

As to what I do now. I did teacher training where I taught Citizenship and GCSE Law, not very well though, I'm just not cut out for teaching. People who think teaching is easy have no idea. Right now I'm a supply teacher and pretty much wanting out of it. Where to though, I haven't the foggiest.

 

[Bilboblue]

A few years ago I read a book called "Invasion They're Coming" which described D-Day and the battle for Normandy from a German viewpoint.

I don't know if it's still available.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=invasion%2C+They%27re+coming&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ainvasion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... 3Ainvasion</a>\c+They%27re+coming

You didn't say if it was any good.

 

[Damocles]

This is a totally irrelevant question considering your knowledge in this area but are you a historian?

You seem to have a large knowledge on military history in the 20th century and was just wondering what you do? Again, not a slight on any information you have given or will give, just something intriguing. We've spoken on here and elsewhere for years and it occurred to me that I never actually asked you this.

No, I'm not. Although I have to say how my life has panned out is a total and utter accident. When I was sixteen, I wanted to be an RAF pilot. In order to aide me the A-levels I took were Physics and Computing. I couldn't take History as they clashed with both of those subjects, so I took Politics instead. That course changed my life, as my political awareness began to grow, I began to have moral qualms about what I'd be asked to do as an RAF pilot. I felt I couldn't justify bombing in civilian areas so I began to err away from it. I still had no intention of going to university though. It was mainly the influence of my girlfriend at the time who I then lived with throughout university. If I'd had my choice I'd have taken a history degree instead but because I only have AS-Level History, that wasn't possible. I did do a number of what were basically history modules - that were taught wholly by the history department rather than the politics department. My knowledge of the Second World War though, is not at all from education though. I'm self-educated in the subject. I believe I have told you this before though. I seem to recall that you have asked and I have told you.

As to what I do now. I did teacher training where I taught Citizenship and GCSE Law, not very well though, I'm just not cut out for teaching. People who think teaching is easy have no idea. Right now I'm a supply teacher and pretty much wanting out of it. Where to though, I haven't the foggiest.

It's a shame as from my view at least you have a way of explaining the detail that matters, have you considered lecturing students in college rather than teaching? I have embarked on a second degree and can say that is about a billion times more fulfilling than the first and the economics aren't insurmountable. You're really good at history. When I read history threads regarding this period, I always wait for your posts.

 

[Henkeman]

Well, I thought James Holland's take was pretty good and again I concur mostly. I thought he blamed Monty too much though. It's not just a media thing. It's a view common amongst the American command and the typical soldier too. I have grievance with the maddeningly smug American perception of the British campaign in Normandy. Even in World at War, it fucking pisses me off. They had no understanding of what the British and Canadians were fighting in Caen. We were sucking the Germans in and pinning them down, the Americans got all the glory because they were the ones doing the easy stuff (once the bocage was broken through) of flanking and taking territory against limited and sporadic opposition.

They hated Montgomery over there, so he barely ever gets a positive remark. But (and I know I keep on about this), the two dimensional thinking is at least part of it: I had a discussion once where an American said there were surprisingly few great British generals. Apart from the woeful ignorance in that comment in itself (and the likes of Slim are appallingly badly known amongst the public) I simply asked him why he would think in those terms, rather than noting the likes of Nelson, Hood, St Vincent, Howe, Collingwood, Effingham, Blake, Anson, the Duke of York, Parker, Hornby, Vian, Cunningham, Somerville et al. He paused and said "Aren't they all admirals?". Yes, precisely. Britain is and was a naval power, not a land one.

Nevertheless, the performance of both British and American armies in both world wars wasn't exceptional (this isn't a criticism), because both nations were maritime powers anyway - it's just not at all surprising. The Wehrmacht was the outstanding army in the war, far and away superior to both British and American armies, and even further above the Russians. So carping from the US about performance of the British army is and was ridiculous - you can highlight issues from both nations. Manpower and resources made up the gap for the US, the British were appallingly stretched in a way no other combatant on the allied side was.

One other unrelated issue: In the D Day celebrations today there's been comparatively little mention of the Canadians. Not only were their land forces heavily involved, but as a nation of under 20 million people at the time, they went from nowhere to the third largest navy in the world during the war. Their commitment to a war that was not a direct threat to them was nothing short of astonishing. And we should thank them from the bottom of our hearts.

 

[Rascal]

@Skash

Please dont give up on teaching, find your niche. A man with your knowledge and understanding of the world should be used to educate.

I was training to be a teacher until my ailments made it not possible. I had done college lecturesnand buzzed off it, but it wasnt to be for me.

You lad are as far im concerned have so much to offer, please offer it

 

[Balti]

Legends

 

[BillyBonds]

For those interested in the history of D-Day you may be interested in the little known secret 'Operation Tiger'. This occurred prior to the landings and nearly 1,000 lost their lives, a few miles from where I live -


http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq20-2.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Tiger

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Well, I thought James Holland's take was pretty good and again I concur mostly. I thought he blamed Monty too much though. It's not just a media thing. It's a view common amongst the American command and the typical soldier too. I have grievance with the maddeningly smug American perception of the British campaign in Normandy. Even in World at War, it fucking pisses me off. They had no understanding of what the British and Canadians were fighting in Caen. We were sucking the Germans in and pinning them down, the Americans got all the glory because they were the ones doing the easy stuff (once the bocage was broken through) of flanking and taking territory against limited and sporadic opposition.

My uncle was in the third royal tank regiment fighting in Caen. He had only just turned 19 and was up against an SS.Panzer division.
Operation Goodwood was the (little mentioned)battle, he was was part of one of the only tank crews from his unit to survive. Strangely enough he was in Norfolk on D-Day as part of the fake invasion force and didn't go into France until July and smoked his first cigarette on that very day, with the added irony in his latter years of nicotine doing him more damage than Hitler.

 

[another generation]

Watching a recording of the day's highlights. Love the Queen's face when the Red Arrows go over. I would hazard that to be a smirk. 'Take that, all you other world leaders. That's my lot, and none of you have anything that comes close!'