Defence conundrum

Bizarre decisions when you take off a £50m centre half, move to 3 at the back, 2 of whom are shit left backs, and the other is a shit centre half who's been booked.

"Genius"
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
Peps got to be more pragmatic with the system, you could see that ball over the top happening over and over again. Nothing got done to change it.

Big games like that Mancini would have shut up shop a goal up, Pep is on a learning curve here English football is a different animal to what he's faced before.
Click to expand...

Mancini had defenders who were 10 times better, including a younger, fitter Zabaleta, with people like Gareth Barry in front & even Vieira. And still we let Stoke etc get back into games.
 
I honestly think if we're to play a back three it should be Sagna - Stones - Clichy

Sagna is more solid than otamendi, and more athletic AND knows how to stand a man up. Cliche can defend, and has pace - two things that Kolorov doesn't do well
 
Agree that Sagna should start (as a CB if playing 3 at the back).

I remember Clichy played well as part of a 3 versus Chelsea in the second half of the Charity Shield match at Villa Park. I do not think I would trust him nowadays but at least he would add a bit of pace (Kolarov looked like he was pulling a cart yesterday).

I think Pep made a mistake by matching Chelsea's formation - we needed more defensive nous on the pitch.
 
Neville Kneville said:
If you look at the Chelsea goals in isolation, you can say Pep's tactics were wrong.

What you are not taking into consideration, is the possibility that if we play a different way A: we still get done for pace by a ball over the top as we have been shit for years there & Hazard ran through us like a dose of salts even from the wing in our title winning season, & B: we can't beat the likes of Costa in the air or have the strength to hold him on the ground, even if we have 10 players back & Fat Sam as manager.

If we had Fat sam as manager, he would sign some huge donkeys, to do Otamendi's job for him & park the bus.

We can't do that.

Spurs didn't beat us by counter attacking, nor did Celtic score 3 on the counter. they just expoloited shit defenders. To cover for shit defenders, we need defensive mids.

Three at the back is not the problem, nor is 4 or 5. Our defenders are shit.
Click to expand...
I am inclined to agree with your conclusion.
Their positional play and decision making is poor. Last ditch tackles and blocks are a sign of this and we seem to make plenty of these.
Kolarov and Otamendi dive in and/or get bullied off the ball far too easily and Clichy is a spent force as regrettably is Zabba. All these would probably do well in serie A with the lack of pace but are not up to PL.
A fit Vinny and Sagna would make a difference.I am not sure Denayer has the pace but would be happy to see him given at least a chance at some stage before writing youth off.
I think we need a new CB and a LB and RB at the very least.
Shame we didn't go in for young Marcos Alonso like the chavs did...he is the type of player needed.
 
Adebayor said:
I honestly think if we're to play a back three it should be Sagna - Stones - Clichy

Sagna is more solid than otamendi, and more athletic AND knows how to stand a man up. Cliche can defend, and has pace - two things that Kolorov doesn't do well
Click to expand...

I think Sagna has to be a consideration in that system.

But Otamendi is the supposedly 'aerial' cb & the tough guy, in the middle. That's the problem imo. Unlikely Costa scores that goal v VK or Lescott or even Micah Richards.

We need a No1 cb from somewhere, who dominates.
 
Makes us appreciate how good we were the year we won the league first off. What a team that was.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Mancini had defenders who were 10 times better, including a younger, fitter Zabaleta, with people like Gareth Barry in front & even Vieira. And still we let Stoke etc get back into games.
Click to expand...

As someone said on twitter last night, Mancini's impregnable 11/12 defence with young zabaleta, Barry and De Jong had conceded 13 goals at this stage, Peps has conceded 15.

The difference is not so great as people are making out.
 
Neville Kneville said:
If you look at the Chelsea goals in isolation, you can say Pep's tactics were wrong.

What you are not taking into consideration, is the possibility that if we play a different way A: we still get done for pace by a ball over the top as we have been shit for years there & Hazard ran through us like a dose of salts even from the wing in our title winning season, & B: we can't beat the likes of Costa in the air or have the strength to hold him on the ground, even if we have 10 players back & Fat Sam as manager.

If we had Fat sam as manager, he would sign some huge donkeys, to do Otamendi's job for him & park the bus.

We can't do that.

Spurs didn't beat us by counter attacking, nor did Celtic score 3 on the counter. they just expoloited shit defenders. To cover for shit defenders, we need defensive mids.

Three at the back is not the problem, nor is 4 or 5. Our defenders are shit.
Click to expand...

I agree mate.

What i will say is that both Costa and hazard where brilliant yesterday and sometimes you just hold your hands up but we didn't compete with them at all and that is just not on.
 
Neville Kneville said:
If you look at the Chelsea goals in isolation, you can say Pep's tactics were wrong.

What you are not taking into consideration, is the possibility that if we play a different way A: we still get done for pace by a ball over the top as we have been shit for years there & Hazard ran through us like a dose of salts even from the wing in our title winning season, & B: we can't beat the likes of Costa in the air or have the strength to hold him on the ground, even if we have 10 players back & Fat Sam as manager.

If we had Fat sam as manager, he would sign some huge donkeys, to do Otamendi's job for him & park the bus.

We can't do that.

Spurs didn't beat us by counter attacking, nor did Celtic score 3 on the counter. they just expoloited shit defenders. To cover for shit defenders, we need defensive mids.

Three at the back is not the problem, nor is 4 or 5. Our defenders are shit.
Click to expand...
Otamendi aside, the rest don't look like they want to defend (and,sadly, he can't). Stones actually ran away from Costa yesterday, he just didn't want to know. The system we played yesterday just needs someone with real pace (Keith Curle would have excelled in that system yesterday). The issue I have is, we are 1-0 up, they're offering very little but we get caught three times with NINE players in the top third of the pitch. Now, there's playing a high line and there's football suicide. The issue over Taylor not giving decisions is in danger of masking the real issue, in that it looks like we don't want to win 1-0. We have no defensive discipline whatsoever. Out of the starting outfield 10, there is only Otamendi who is not better going forwards than backwards or has the word defender anywhere near a description of him. Look at Kante yesterday. I didn't hardly see him in our half, a role which not one of our players (since NDJ) have looked vaguely interested in playing. All that being said, if we are winning 3 or 4 nil after an hour (which we should have been yesterday) much of this discussion is rendered irrelevant.
 
Burtonblue said:
I am inclined to agree with your conclusion.
Their positional play and decision making is poor. Last ditch tackles and blocks are a sign of this and we seem to make plenty of these.
Kolarov and Otamendi dive in and/or get bullied off the ball far too easily and Clichy is a spent force as regrettably is Zabba. All these would probably do well in serie A with the lack of pace but are not up to PL.
A fit Vinny and Sagna would make a difference.I am not sure Denayer has the pace but would be happy to see him given at least a chance at some stage before writing youth off.
I think we need a new CB and a LB and RB at the very least.
Shame we didn't go in for young Marcos Alonso like the chavs did...he is the type of player needed.
Click to expand...

Denayer would need a whole season as a 'bit part' player learning the job, as he's been fucked about at a crucial time in his career. He is actually two yards quicker than any of our back 4 .

It does seem as if Clichy is now just a left sided Zabba, both are off the pace.

We have had 3 years to refresh this area from Mancini's days & failed completely & utterly.

That's the problem. We can't fix it now, so we have to make the best of it, which is I think, what Pep is trying to do, whilst learning about his players.
 
blueinsa said:
I agree mate.

What i will say is that both Costa and hazard where brilliant yesterday and sometimes you just hold your hands up but we didn't compete with them at all and that is just not on.
Click to expand...

They were both excellent & would have caused any defence problems. But the goals, were very defendable, as are most we are conceding.

And two, three years ago, Aguero would have had 4 on his own at the other end with that many chances & positions, thus Chelsea would probably have already taken Hazard off.

Amongst all the doom & gloom & shit defending, we opened up Chelsea like nobody has seen yesterday. We then fucked it up. But that shouldn't be forgotten. We had the game, well & truly.

The last time we won the title, they absolutely dicked us in the league game & we looked like fucking amateurs. We won the league.

This was much, much better than that.
 
Neville Kneville said:
They were both excellent & would have caused any defence problems. But the goals, were very defendable, as are most we are conceding.

And two, three years ago, Aguero would have had 4 on his own at the other end with that many chances & positions, thus Chelsea would probably have already taken Hazard off.

Amongst all the doom & gloom & shit defending, we opened up Chelsea like nobody has seen yesterday. We then fucked it up. But that shouldn't be forgotten. We had the game, well & truly.

The last time we won the title, they absolutely dicked us in the league game & we looked like fucking amateurs. We won the league.

This was much, much better than that.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Denayer would need a whole season as a 'bit part' player learning the job, as he's been fucked about at a crucial time in his career. He is actually two yards quicker than any of our back 4 .

It does seem as if Clichy is now just a left sided Zabba, both are off the pace.

We have had 3 years to refresh this area from Mancini's days & failed completely & utterly.

That's the problem. We can't fix it now, so we have to make the best of it, which is I think, what Pep is trying to do, whilst learning about his players.
Click to expand...
Is he? Mane burned him off at Anfield last week. We should give Tosin a chance

We need Kompany back and Jesus to hit the ground running. He must have been gutted watching that yesterday. Joining a team with no spirit. what annoyed me was the attitude of the players at 1-1. You could see them arguing and Chelsea will have sensed blood at 1-1. We just collapsed. The game was still there to fight for. We miss players like Kompany, barry, tevez, De Jong and Toure in his pomp. Then the players knew that they had a goal or two in them with 5 mins to go. This lot are useless.
 
If, as is being touted in the papers we are thinking of spunking 40m on vandyjk at southampton is gonna be another pointless move, we need a commanding centreback who can lead the team and unfortunaley there isn't many out there that will be available.
It is where it is at present, our wingers cannot play wing back so three at the back leaves us exposed on the flanks and tbf asking stones to drift wide right wastes him and kolarov is shote as a LB or left sided in a 3.
Pick a defense be it 3 or 4 but then stick to it unless injured

If a 4 Sanga stones otter clichy
If a 3 Sagna Stones Clichy
blood the kids and in January go for someone like Papastathopoulos or Bonucci.
It's been 3 months now even Pep must realise that we have some weak defenders that hinder rather than help at times
 
Good fullbacks getting old - Clichy, Sagna & Zabba.
Great centre half knackered - Kompany.
Are they actually defenders - Otamendi & Kolorov.
Potential but surrounded by dross - Stones.

We are in real trouble defensively, need at least two new faces in January.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
Maybe we should bring Mangala back from his loan spell. At least he has a bit of pace and strength.
Click to expand...

I agree, we could do a lot worse than bringing him back. Alack of pace is catching us out and he can play on the left side if we did go to 3 at the back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top