Discuss Pellegrini....

[pominoz]

It's refreshing to hear some enlightened posts on here about Pellers performance tonight. Too often people highlighting his mistakes is mistaken for needless criticism. It's possible to like Pellegrini, but also recognise he makes mistakes. Tonight was a good example of him making mistakes.

He got completely out thought, out smarted and out coached by a more tactically savvy manager tonight. That doesn't mean I don't like him, I've just got my eyes open.

Terry saying they've spent the last 2 days working on how to exploit our tactics speaks volumes. We set up the exact same way, no matter what the opposition, no matter what personnel we have available.

The best managers take in to account their teams own strengths, weaknesses, personnel available, and analyse the the same in their opponents, and then come up with the best game plan to win the game. Pellegrini sticks to the same game plan no matter who we have available, no matter who we're playing. In 2014 that is naive, and the smartest managers, like Mourinho and Guardiola find him out.

That is my one concern with him, the mantra of "my teams always play the same way".
As you say, you need to be able to change according to the opposition.

 

[wayne71]

That is my one concern with him, the mantra of "my teams always play the same way".
As you say, you need to be able to change according to the opposition.

That just isn't going to happen whilst pellers is here.

 

[eversince 76]

It's refreshing to hear some enlightened posts on here about Pellers performance tonight. Too often people highlighting his mistakes is mistaken for needless criticism. It's possible to like Pellegrini, but also recognise he makes mistakes. Tonight was a good example of him making mistakes.

He got completely out thought, out smarted and out coached by a more tactically savvy manager tonight. That doesn't mean I don't like him, I've just got my eyes open.

Terry saying they've spent the last 2 days working on how to exploit our tactics speaks volumes. We set up the exact same way, no matter what the opposition, no matter what personnel we have available.

The best managers take in to account their teams own strengths, weaknesses, personnel available, and analyse the the same in their opponents, and then come up with the best game plan to win the game. Pellegrini sticks to the same game plan no matter who we have available, no matter who we're playing. In 2014 that is naive, and the smartest managers, like Mourinho and Guardiola find him out.

That is my one concern with him, the mantra of "my teams always play the same way".
As you say, you need to be able to change according to the opposition.

Well, I tend to disagree with this. Pellegrini wants his squad to learn no matter what position you're in, you know the system we play and with that system we shoud be able to outplay any system that is being put in front of us. It's what Barcelona has been doing over the last 6 years or so. It's exactly what Pellegrini said in the build-up to this game: "You never know what to expect from opposing teams. Some might defend with players behind the ball, some think attack will be better. What I want is my team to play their style". Playing the same style doesn't mean the players do the exact moves every game. They learn to be more clever tactically, recognize what to do when fazing what the opposition brings on and fight than within the system every squadplayer knows. Some on here forget we are in a learning year, or a transittional year for that matter. Don't think otherwise because of our recent impressive run, or the hype that has been around our club lately. Soriano stated before this season he expect us to win at least 5 trophies in the next 5 years. But he also stated it could be we miss out on any in the 1st, knowing it woudl be a season of transittion. That is the bigger picture. Not singling out a homedefeat vs Bayern and Chelsea to try and say what Pellegrini is doing is naief. I for one am very curious if Pellegrini can succeed what he's doing, because at Villareal and Malaga he didin't have the right resources and at Real he was given no time.

 

[fatbloke]

Last night we saw exactly why Pellegrini has never won a trophy and has never come close to beating Mourinho. Quite simply that was the most naive tactical game plan I've ever seen. Literally every single person in that ground last night knew we had lost before kickoff, playing Demichelles in a midfield 4 against the pace and power of Luis, Matic, Ramires, Willian and Hazard just beggars belief. For all those saying we didn't have any options why not thrown Clichy in at left back and move Kolarov into midfield, allowing Silva to play in central midfield.

 

[bernabias home shirt]

Chelsea did a number on us last night & pretty much tore us a new arse,i even think one up front would of seen us still lose,we've just taken 24 points out of 24 so the gaffer deserves a bit of slack
Have to get back to winning ways on sat at Norwich to get over last nights debacle & i think we will be in for a tough game.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Just got back and I feel quite upbeat, although dosappointed. The absences of fernandinho and aguero were huge, and we had an unsolvable problem. - which has been on the cards all year- with fernandinho's injury. The only option was de Michelis which left nastasic as the only option at centre half. And his confidence is shot. They flooded the final third to stymy our creativity and did it well, but we were desperately unlucky not to go a goal or two up on the first 25 minutes before they settled. Then our heads went.

I thought clichy should have started, although kolorov was our best outlet first half . And I thought jovetic should have started, but to cut the manager some slack, I don't know how fit he is.

He changed the game because he gave us an extra body in the congested problem area but more than that, extra guile. In the second half we could easily have equalised - but easily conceded too.

Mourinho, the wily old ****, made the whole game about him, the media, the fans, even our own bloody fans fell for it and he came out of it looking like a genius. But I think pellegrini just suffered from one of those nights. With Sergio running at their back two, and fernandinho snapping around the back of our midfield, this would have been a different game.

One of those nights. We move on, get players back and carry on winning games. There was very little else pellegrini could have done to change tonight. Milner in central midfield? Maybe. Bit clearly the manager doesn't fancy him there as he doesn't keep possession very well.

There's a damn good reason we were trying to sign a centre half and a holding midfielder in January.

Agree with everything there. On Milner, I already posted that I do not think he would have won as much ball as MDM or retain possession as well as MDM. Milner might have covered more ground and might have played a creative pass or two but, all in all, I do not think he would have improved things one jot in the middle.

We'll have to disagree on that point, cos in the game I watched, the 3 Chelsea midfielders behind Eto'o waltzed past MdM like he wasn't there again and again, and surely protecting the back 4 was his primary role. 7 tackles made or not, he was a disaster.
Personally I think Pellers got it badly wrong last night and it's not the first time. Both Munich and Southampton ran through us repeatedly as well, and selecting a player that immobile to play in a midfield two was, quite frankly, asking for it. In the build up to the goal, I watched Ramires wander unpoliced from the edge of the box to the edge of the 6 yard box. Still unmarked he had time to wait (and wait....and wait) for the cut back and although the shot was blocked, it rebounded to Ivanovic, who swept it home, again unchallenged. Ya Ya meanwhile walked and watched on one side of the 18 yard box and MdM was doing the same on the other. The same happened when Eto'o hit the bar, and again when Matic hit the post. It went on all night - Chelsea attacking players in oceans of space with no-one closing them down.
There's nothing wrong with the way Pellers sets his teams up; the problem is that he sets them up the same way irrespective of whether the key personnel capable of making the system work, are in place. When you've got only one centre half at the club with the pace and power to cope with one on one defending and you're up against talented opponents employing a high tempo press, putting DiMichelis in a 2 man midfield had inevitable consequences.
There's a reason we were after Mangala and Fernando.
Didn't think MdM was our worst player last night though. That accolade went to Nastasic. The one real plus was Jovetic. He changed the game, but alas we couldn't find an equaliser

 

[lust overlord]

Last night we saw exactly why Pellegrini has never won a trophy and has never come close to beating Mourinho. Quite simply that was the most naive tactical game plan I've ever seen. Literally every single person in that ground last night knew we had lost before kickoff, playing Demichelles in a midfield 4 against the pace and power of Luis, Matic, Ramires, Willian and Hazard just beggars belief. For all those saying we didn't have any options why not thrown Clichy in at left back and move Kolarov into midfield, allowing Silva to play in central midfield.

With hindsight,Pellers did get it wrong because we were well beaten.
We lost with a defender in Cm and you're suggesting putting another defender in there ?
Daft.

 

[Dr Jacoby]

Disagree with his comments about Chelsea being lucky. They hit the post three times and could have been out of sight at half-time.

 

[fatbloke]

Last night we saw exactly why Pellegrini has never won a trophy and has never come close to beating Mourinho. Quite simply that was the most naive tactical game plan I've ever seen. Literally every single person in that ground last night knew we had lost before kickoff, playing Demichelles in a midfield 4 against the pace and power of Luis, Matic, Ramires, Willian and Hazard just beggars belief. For all those saying we didn't have any options why not thrown Clichy in at left back and move Kolarov into midfield, allowing Silva to play in central midfield.

With hindsight,Pellers did get it wrong because we were well beaten.
We lost with a defender in Cm and you're suggesting putting another defender in there ?
Daft.

We lost because we were too open and adventurous against a manager known for exposing teams tactical deficiencies, not because we played a defender in midfield.

 

[mancity111]

Disagree with his comments about Chelsea being lucky. They hit the post three times and could have been out of sight at half-time.

It certainly wasn't one of our most polished performances this season and yes we did ride a fair bit of luck due to our lack of mobility or perhaps due to Chelsea's superior mobility especially after the first 20 minutes.

I think the personnel we had out players playing that are not match fit combined with a lack of players being able to accommodate the press and high line MP seems intent on developing clearly made a difference.

Missing the likes of Nasri , Kun and Ferny all at the same time was pivotal.

We need all three back ASAP fit and can't afford any more injuries until they are.

 

[Jimfv1]

A perfect storm of injuries, tactics and a very solid Chelsea side. Feel we could have made more of a game of that than we did even with the players available, but as long as the response is another run like the one we went on after Sunderland we'll be fine.

Spot on this quote,......

Chelsea could have had 4 or 5 to be fair, but on another day we could have scored 2 maybe 3. Chelsea were on top and deserved their win last night.

Dzeko again showed why he could be replaced in the summer, he just isn't clinical enough for us in this league, and it doesn't matter if it's Chelsea or Palace we're playing. Negredo had a very poor game, coming back from injury and Pellers said he wasn't 100% so this is understandable to some extent. I don't think Dzeko has a poor game excuse because he did look our best striker on the night, (until Jovetic came on), it's just in front of goal, if he gets 7 chances he may score one.

Unbelievable that the two players we tried to sign last week could have made the difference last night.

I don't think much blame could be laid on Pellegrini, his hands were tied to some extent with injuries, and the bench showed it, we don't have the strength in depth that all journo's have been saying. Only in the striking dept. are we strong.

Milner, Jovetic and Negredo coming back from injury meant none of these would have played 90 mins. Negredo had a poor game and his passing was very poor at times.

Plus points are that Navas was probably our best player, Hart did what he could and held onto the ball well when he could. Only beaten by one unstoppable shot, but also saved by the woodwork 3 times. Yaya picked his game up in the second half and both Nastasic and MDM had a lesson in concentration being key in the Premier league for all the game.

Hypothetical only but it would have been very interesting had we signed the two players from Porto and been able to play them. If Fernandinho had been fit then would this side have beaten Chelsea last night ?
Hart
Zabaleta - Kompany - Mangala - Kolarov
Fernando - Fernandinho
Navas - Toure - Silva
Aguero

Either 4-2-3-1 as above or even 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 it wouldn't really matter the line up would have been strong enough in my opinion to beat all sides in the Premier league.

Next season we should be playing with a similar team tot he one above and this can obviously be tweaked to a 4-4-2 or 4-2-4 when attacking if Negredo or Jovetic plays. I think with Txiki's involvement in the summer window then next season's squad can be something very special however this season pans out for Pellegrini.

 

[Bluemanc100]

This has probably been mentioned so apologies but I was embarassed listening to Pellers saying we were the better side....... rather foolish comments

As was the choice to put Demichellis anywhere near the ground let alone the midfield..... purple patches but sadly past it

 

[bugsyblue]

We lost a game 0-1 that we could have won we could have won. We're 2nd in the premier, league cup final, FA Cup and European Champions League last sixteen. Whats the fucking problem. No team can expect to win every game, its almost an invisible rule of the sport. With a full squad Pellegrini's lads would have seen Chelsea off.

It's not where we are at that is upsetting people, it's the fact that we lost an important game purely because we were tactical outclassed. Sure, pellers went with his trusted 4-4-2, and why not, it's worked pretty much every other game. However it was criminal not to change formation at half time, every could see our midfield was being overrun. Similar story against bayern. I think that's why everyone is so upset - different tactics and last night could have been so different.

 

[tonea2003]

a little worried he refuses to match up in midfield especially in the top games ala last night

chelsea pretty much had the freedom to break at will once the ball didn't stick with our front two

 

[mcfcphil]

Last defeat was Sunderland away - fernandinho was injured. No coincidence.

If fernandinho is out then we can't play a midfield two. We couldn't against sunderland and we certainly can't against chelsea.

Some games we might get away with it but we are playing a very dangerous game in my opinion.
If fernandinho is out for a month then pellegrini needs to get his thinking cap on and come up with a solution. We'll find out just how good a manager he is in the next month.

 

[mike channon´s windmill]

a little worried he refuses to match up in midfield especially in the top games ala last night

chelsea pretty much had the freedom to break at will once the ball didn't stick with our front two

Just too inflexible and intransigent imo - it´s being able to think on your feet and execute game changing decisions that can be the difference between winning or not winning trophies and this manager needs a pot to get the monkey off his back. Nothing wrong with a bit of pragmatism in certain situations and last night with all the injuries was one of those situations.

 

[citysince88]

I don't want to come across as bashing Pellegrini or just trying to flame but his belief that talent alone is enough is whilst admirable, idiotic. Playing Demi and yaya as a pair against Chelsea's midfield cost us and whilst Demi wasn't as much as a car crash as I thought he would be in the pre match thread it was still awful to watch Chelsea breaking at our defenders time after time after time.

There is no point saying this or that would have worked better because obviously nobody is going to listen to us. However don't be surprised if we all end up back here in the future saying the same things. Pellegrini appears to be tremendously stubborn and I worry that his lack of adaptability with his formation will cost us silverware that's not a call for him to be sacked I know there is zero chance of that happening but some people's blind loyalty is bemusing.

 

[Jimfv1]

Major problem last night was we were missing arguably three of our best players in Aguero, Nasri and Fernandinho. Then we had Negredo not 100% fit and it showed. In midfield we had to play MDM due to Fernandinho's injury, and Garcia being injured. Milner isn't 100% and Rodwell has just come back into the side and is made of glass

In hindsight Negredo could have been left out at the start, but would anyone on here have left him out and maybe Rodwell could have been tried alongside MDM, however he had a poor game against Watford so could Pellegrini trust him ?

I like most City fans think the tactics in a match are more important than the style of play, and it's taking some time for me to see why style of play is number one for our club now. I know Chelsea were at their best and we weren't, but in the longer term the future for our method of play is brighter than Chelsea's. They can play football when they are allowed too, but it is just a counter attacking style which relies on the dfence soaking up loads of pressure until they can break. Mourinho will have to tweak his defence in the next couple of years to cope without Terry and maybe Ivanovich, whereas we haven't sorted our centre midfield or defence yet and yet are still in all four competitions this season.

I'm sure that most people will agree that our easy to watch football will bring in more fans and commercial deals than Chelsea's.

Chelsea also had more at stake last night than we did, if they had lost then the gap to them would have been 2 games to Arsenal and with our goal difference then 3 games to us. As it is there is still plenty to play for, for all the clubs.

We will have to beat Norwich and hope we can get some players back for the Sunderland game and return with Chelsea in the FA Cup.

 

[Blue Tooth]

We lost a game 0-1 that we could have won we could have won. We're 2nd in the premier, league cup final, FA Cup and European Champions League last sixteen. Whats the fucking problem. No team can expect to win every game, its almost an invisible rule of the sport. With a full squad Pellegrini's lads would have seen Chelsea off.

However it was criminal not to change formation at half time, everyone could see our midfield was being overrun.

Pellers disagrees. Quote from the OS.
"“This game was not a problem of the midfielders. I didn’t make the other two substitutions because I didn’t think we could change the game by doing that."

For me we lost to a better more organised side on the night. We did not hit our usual standards and after mauling Spurs my own expectations were high for this game. Losing Aguero and Fernan cannot be underestimated and if we are still missing them for the FA Cup game and Barca our missed targets in the window in January might bite us on the arse.
I get that Pellegrini wants to develop his system amd I support that. However if the right personel are not available for the right positions maybe short term he has to reconsider against better quality opposition.

 

[flb]

The only player we have fit now who is capable to cover Fern is Milner.

I thought Dem did ok last night in the first half anyway, he just ran out of legs second half.

Jovetic should have started, this guy looks the business in the little we have seen of him.

Just need to ride the storm out now injury wise, Aguero,Nasri and Fern will return at the most crucial part of the season with fresh legs,Chelsea are yet to pick up any injuries to key players.