Discussion: Txiki Begiristain (2014/15)

[davymcfc]

I think Mangala in and Nastasic out will what people will judge him on of the team continues to play as badly as it has been.

Nothing signing Messi won't sort out!

Jury is still in my opinion

This.

 

[Damocles]

Judge the man by the end of this summer, and not before.

He has an awful lot of big calls to make mow and over the next few months.
His first 4 transfer windows have not been great but they haven't been that bad and only Fernando is a complete Turkey.

Fernando has played 25 games this season and he cost £12m. Rodwell who he replaced as an outgoing played that in his entire City career and we sold him for £13m.

Again, form is the manager's fault.

 

[Silva Citizen]

I think Mangala in and Nastasic out will what people will judge him on of the team continues to play as badly as it has been.

Nothing signing Messi won't sort out!

Jury is still in my opinion

This.

Is he the only Director of Football in the prem who has never managed a team ?
Hate to say it put Platini has more credentials for the DOF position that he does.

 

[Jack Wills]

Judge the man by the end of this summer, and not before.

He has an awful lot of big calls to make mow and over the next few months.
His first 4 transfer windows have not been great but they haven't been that bad and only Fernando is a complete Turkey.

Fernando has played 25 games this season and he cost £12m. Rodwell who he replaced as an outgoing played that in his entire City career and we sold him for £13m.

Again, form is the manager's fault.

Rodwell could get injured eating his weetabix though, as well as not being good enough.

Fernando just isn't good enough, that was £12m wasted.

 

[Damocles]

I think Mangala in and Nastasic out will what people will judge him on of the team continues to play as badly as it has been.

Nothing signing Messi won't sort out!

Jury is still in my opinion

This.

Is he the only Director of Football in the prem who has never managed a team ?
Hate to say it put Platini has more credentials for the DOF position that he does.

He's the only Director of Football in the Prem to have won the Champions League twice and built the squad that won it the third time

 

[Damocles]

Rodwell could get injured eating his weetabix though, as well as not being good enough.

Fernando just isn't good enough, that was £12m wasted.

The manager seems to think that he's good enough for City, evidence by the fact that he constantly plays him for City.

I get the feeling that this is a thread that I'll be banging my head against the wall with for a long time because people aren't slagging him for things that he has nothing to do with. It's like watching people slag off David Cameron because their bins didn't get emptied and people not seeing why that is daft.

 

[BlooMoon]

Judge the man by the end of this summer, and not before.

Since he came to sign players for Roberto and Manuel, a lot of expensive failed and unused signings occurred:

Jack Rodwell (£13m)
Fernandinho (£38m)
Eliaquim Mangala (£38m)
Wilfried Bony (£28m)
Stevan Jovetić (£22m)
Richard Wright (unknown)
Scott Sinclair (£10m)
Bacary Sagna (£13k weekly salary)

Including selling good players for lower than original price such as De Jong £8m, Javi Garcia £10m, Nastasic £9m

 

[Damocles]

Judge the man by the end of this summer, and not before.

Since he came to sign players for Roberto and Manuel, a lot of expensive failed and unused signings occurred:

Jack Rodwell (£13m)
Fernandinho (£38m)
Eliaquim Mangala (£38m)
Wilfried Bony (£28m)
Stevan Jovetić (£22m)
Richard Wright (unknown)
Scott Sinclair (£10m)
Bacary Sagna (£13k weekly salary)

Including selling good players for lower than original price such as De Jong £8m, Javi Garcia £10m, Nastasic £9m

He didn't sign half of those players and you've left off another bunch that he did sign. Oh some of those fees are wrong aswell.

 

[aguero93:20]

Judge the man by the end of this summer, and not before.

By the end of next season for me, I'm relatively happy with most of his signings and we've won a minimum of 2 trophies under him along with 2 progressions from the group stage in the champions league, if we perform well again next season then we'll know that either FFPR was shackling us or that we're suffering another post title hangover, if we show no improvement and form next season then we know that either himself or Pellegrini is to blame and we can act accordingly. Imo.

 

[Silva Citizen]

This.

Is he the only Director of Football in the prem who has never managed a team ?
Hate to say it put Platini has more credentials for the DOF position that he does.

He's the only Director of Football in the Prem to have won the Champions League twice and built the squad that won it the third time

I tend to agree with this from 2012 !

Manchester City's appointment of former Barcelona man Txiki Begiristain has been met with euphoria in some sectors, with reaction ranging from salivating over the potential impact he could have on City's youth development to the leap of faith that he'll soon be followed by Pep Guardiola at the Etihad. City supporters should beware however, as while Begiristain has an enviable honours list to cite from his time in the Camp Nou offices, he also left behind a legacy of some questionable decisions in the transfer market. Not everything Begiristain touches turns to gold...
The Ronaldinho/Eto'o myth
Some media outlets have cited Begiristain as the man behind bringing Ronaldinho and Samuel Eto'o to Barcelona, with both players having a major role in transforming Barcelona's fortunes in the 2000s. Begiristain's part in either signing is questionable, however, as it is widely accepted that Ronaldinho's transfer was sealed by current Barcelona President Sandro Rosell, a former Nike executive who was Barca Vice President at the time. The decision to sign Samuel Eto'o, on the other hand, was said to have come from Joan Laporta. While absolute transparency over signings is rare, what is certain is that Begiristain can't possibly be given all the credit for the two deals, nor for initiating Barcelona's 'golden era' as a result.
The signings time forgot
After Pep Guardiola's arrival at Barcelona in 2008, the club began bringing in a new wave of young players, with the intention of refreshing a tired squad, yet several of the signings completed by Begiristain were seemingly never wanted by Guardiola in the first place. Defender Martin Caceres, bought for €16.5m from Villarreal, only made 13 appearances for Barca before being loaned to Juventus at the end of the season, despite a defensive crisis at Barca that year that would see Yaya Toure used as an emergency centre-back. Caceres was then loaned again to Sevilla before finally being sold permanently to the Andalucian side. Not quite the 'extraordinary future' Begiristain claimed the Uruguayan would have upon his signing for Barca.
Things got even worse with the signing of Henrique Adriano for €8m from Palmeiras on a five year deal that same summer in 2008. Curiously, the defender was immediately loaned to Bayer Leverkusen when the deal was completed, with the rationale given at the time that he would need to adjust to European football prior to his Barca bow. After returning to Barcelona from his loan spell the following year, Guardiola made it clear that he had no intention of incorporating the defender in his team. As a result, Henrique was once again loaned out, this time to Racing Santander, eventually resulting in a two year spell there. A further loan at Palmeiras was made permanent in 2012. In total, Henrique made zero appearances for the Catalan club. Hardly good business on Begiristain's part.

A similarly baffling move came with another Brazilian, young striker Keirrison. Though highly rated at the time, the forward is another player it's believed that Guardiola never requested, but the lack of interest from the coach didn't stop Begiristain playing his part in negotiating a €14m deal for his transfer in 2009. No less than five loan spells have followed since, with Keirrison equalling his compatriot Henrique's zero appearances for the Catalans. That's a total of three players that Guardiola didn't want, and three small fortunes thrown away by the Catalans. Can Roberto Mancini expect more of the same at the Etihad?

The worst deal ever?
Has there ever been a worse deal in football than the one that brought Zlatan Ibrahimovic to Barcelona? In 2009, a fee of circa £45m was negotiated for the Swede that also incredibly included Samuel Eto'o moving in the other direction as a makeweight. Eto'o was valued at around €20m, with the striker having opened the scoring in two Champions League final victories for Barcelona in 2006 and 2009. To claim Begiristain was solely responsible for the transfer would be unjust, but it is nonetheless believed that he played a significant role in negotiations, working jointly with Joan Laporta and Inter President Massimo Moratti to seal the ludicrous fee. Ibrahimovic lasted just one campaign in Catalonia, while the farcical fee was made worse when Samuel Eto'o went on to win the Champions League yet again with Inter, putting Barcelona out of the competition in the process.
The moral of the story
Signing executives, technical directors or even the coach from a hugely successful team does not necessarily mean signing the success itself, and Barcelona's achievements are a complex product of decades of hard work, a golden generation of academy players reaching maturity at the same time, a brilliant coach appearing from relative obscurity and plenty of luck along the way, to name but a few key elements. While Txiki Begiristain did orchestrate some vital transfers during his time at the Nou Camp, overseeing deals to bring the likes of Dani Alves and Eric Abidal to Barcelona, he cannot be given credit for the game-changing arrivals of Ronaldinho or Samuel Eto'o as some of the current hype would have you believe. At the same time he played his part in several transfers, most notably that of Ibrahimovic and the two phantom (but costly) Brazilians, that leave serious questions over his credibility in Catalonia. His time at Manchester City could go either way, but it's important to look at the full picture when considering what kind of impact he may have and it isn't necessarily all golden.
Manchester City fans, how do you feel about Txiki Begiristain's move to the Etihad, and is it just a ploy to try and land Pep Guardiola? Comment below and have your say...