Do you support the RMT?

[meltonblue]

Your numbers are way off. Tax avoidance is about £4bn a year and legal, tax evasion is about £2bn a year and not usually done by the rich but by your mate the builder or others in the cash economy. To allow tax avoidance is a conscious decision of government and I’m sure there are sound reasons for it but it’s easy to close if we choose to. So that leaves us with tax evasion which is nigh on impossible to deal with in the same way benefit fraud is impossible to deal with - but look if governments try and sound tough on both groups they hope it deters enough.

Progressive tax. Anyone earning over £100k starts to lose their tax free allowance so between 100k and 120k pay a nominal 60%. Billionaires don’t earn a billion a year so once you’ve hit them with a super tax once where do you go for your revenue the following year? That’s not progressive it’s bonkers.

Are those numbers right, I’d have thought evasion would have been higher than avoidance?

On the progressive tax, it’s only 60% for a few within that specific bracket and you’d hope most would be savvy enough to offset it from pension contributions. Personally, even though I’m in it, I’d absolutely advocate a higher tax bracket over 100k and increase the percentage that is there for the existing additional rate. I know I’m in a minority in that group though!

 

[halfmist]

This is what pisses me off, the super rich have more money than they can possibly ever spend, but still feel the need squirrel money away to avoid paying tax. Pure greed.

They are super rich for a reason.
They have usually done something with their lives that has benefited us all and have been prepared to reward them to do so.
With the vast majority, their wealth is tied up in their Companies not some sort of cash mountain that they count every day.
You seem to forget the millions of jobs they have created and how much public services have benefitted from the amount of personal and corporate taxes which have resulted from their endeavours.
Without their money we would have very poor public services.

 

[Elbow beards]

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Fucking obscene that.

 

[kit's blue]

About time the working man gets a better wage . Good luck to the rail workers and to many more working class people .

 

[halfmist]

Thing is, you can't have life without workers, you can't have life without bosses. Bosses been in charge forever. Country is coming to a halt anyway because of the mismanagement, and we've already been underfunding as long as anyone can remember. It's a general malaise. And it's not the workers fault, it's not the teachers or doctors either So it's hard to be angry at the unions, or their members who strike, in this instance.

So are you saying they are striking for the general good of the Country to make a stance against mis management
That’s not what the Union are saying.
It’s about feathering their own nest and it’s the innocents who have nothing to do with the strike who pay the price
Let’s at least be honest about it.

 

[halfmist]

It's not what's happening at all halfmist. I think a lot of people are just really enjoying watching a man who clearly knows the business he works in taking government ministers chatting bollocks apart in a way that we haven't seen for a while. Watching him destroy Robert Jenrick's arguments yesterday, a man who has stolen millions of pounds of public money, was a thing of beauty.

Well , no doubt the future will tell us how good he really is when they reach a settlement.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

 

[Elbow beards]

They are super rich for a reason.
They have usually done something with their lives that has benefited us all and have been prepared to reward them to do so.
With the vast majority, their wealth is tied up in their Companies not some sort of cash mountain that they count every day.
You seem to forget the millions of jobs they have created and how much public services have benefitted from the amount of personal and corporate taxes which have resulted from their endeavours.
Without their money we would have very poor public services.

That's not my argument though. I'm pointing out their need, both on a personal and business level, to avoid tax which could vastly improve the lives of others in the country.

 

[halfmist]

That's not my argument though. I'm pointing out their need, both on a personal and business level, to avoid tax which could vastly improve the lives of others in the country.

How are they avoiding tax.
What evidence do you have that this is happening

 

[meltonblue]

They are super rich for a reason.
They have usually done something with their lives that has benefited us all and have been prepared to reward them to do so.
With the vast majority, their wealth is tied up in their Companies not some sort of cash mountain that they count every day.
You seem to forget the millions of jobs they have created and how much public services have benefitted from the amount of personal and corporate taxes which have resulted from their endeavours.
Without their money we would have very poor public services.

The issue is we have decreasing quality of services and increasing concentration and disparity of wealth.

The “we’re all in it together” narrative doesn’t work when you look at individuals and how disproportionately they are being impacted.

 

[halfmist]

Are those numbers right, I’d have thought evasion would have been higher than avoidance?

On the progressive tax, it’s only 60% for a few within that specific bracket and you’d hope most would be savvy enough to offset it from pension contributions. Personally, even though I’m in it, I’d absolutely advocate a higher tax bracket over 100k and increase the percentage that is there for the existing additional rate. I know I’m in a minority in that group though!

We have a progressive tax system in place at the moment
Personally I believe anyone making money should be allowed to keep at least 1/2 of what they earn
We are taxed more now than ever before.
The problem is raising tax rates does not usually increase the tax take.
It certainly reduces the incentive to work
The net high earners are highly mobile and can in effect do their jobs anywhere in the world and are usually welcomed with open arms.
So we have to be careful we don’t kill the goose that lays the golden egg, otherwise it’s the poor buggars on PAYE on standard income tax rates that end up paying more of the bill for public services.