Does 3-5-2 suit our players better than 4-2-3-1?

[Didsbury Dave]

352 will never be our first choice formation in the PL. As a second choice it will only work when conditions are optimal as they were on Sunday against Spurs.

So I realise it doesn't really answer your question but it doesn't matter whether it suits our squad collectively in terms of player characteristics or not ... it's only a plan B ... and as a plan B it's very limited as well.

If we are losing and we need to change the system it can work great like the spurs game just gone, it also worked well against Chelsea in the charity shield... I agree it won’t be or first choice formation in the premier league, maybe champions league?? I still think 4-2-3-1 is our best formation IMO

I also thing that 4231 is our best formation overall, and the 4222 we play quite regularly can work, but not always. Everyone keeps quoting Chelsea as the high water mark of the 352 but they forget that they only had ten men and had one up front, thereby allowing us to push the two wide centre halves out like fullbacks, so that the wingbacks could effectively play as midfielders. Against good sides (hint, like Real Madrid) this is hugely offset by the space you leave them to exploit out wide. As another example, see Liverpool away this year.

Against poorer teams who we can't break down I agree it's an option to get us wider. That's what happened at the weekend.

 

[sergiokun]

352 will never be our first choice formation in the PL. As a second choice it will only work when conditions are optimal as they were on Sunday against Spurs.

So I realise it doesn't really answer your question but it doesn't matter whether it suits our squad collectively in terms of player characteristics or not ... it's only a plan B ... and as a plan B it's very limited as well.

If we are losing and we need to change the system it can work great like the spurs game just gone, it also worked well against Chelsea in the charity shield... I agree it won’t be or first choice formation in the premier league, maybe champions league?? is still think 4-2-3-1 is our best formation IMO

As I said in the post above, the only competitive game we've won whilst playing that way is Spurs on Sunday. Before that it worked in a friendly against Chelsea, and it half worked against United in a match we ultimately lost anyway.

In my opinion if you want to play 3 at the back effectively your players should play it week in and week out like Napoli and At Bilbao have done over the last couple of seasons. Otherwise, like City, and like Liverpool against Chelsea as well on Sunday, it's just too hit and miss and has too many frailties. Will work occasionally as a plan B, but that's about it.

Well i class the shield as a competitive game :-> it’s a cup.... but yes a agree it’s always going to be plan b, and when we use it, it might not always work, like Sunday... I think Spanish football and Italian football are more suited to it

 

[Anonymous]

Everyone keeps quoting Chelsea as the high water mark of the 352 but they forget IT WAS A FRIENDLY

Fixed that post for you mate ... :)

 

[taconinja]

352 will never be our first choice formation in the PL. As a second choice it will only work when conditions are optimal as they were on Sunday against Spurs.

So I realise it doesn't really answer your question but it doesn't matter whether it suits our squad collectively in terms of player characteristics or not ... it's only a plan B ... and as a plan B it's very limited as well.

If we are losing and we need to change the system it can work great like the spurs game just gone, it also worked well against Chelsea in the charity shield... I agree it won’t be or first choice formation in the premier league, maybe champions league?? is still think 4-2-3-1 is our best formation IMO

As I said in the post above, the only competitive game we've won whilst playing that way is Spurs on Sunday. Before that it worked in a friendly against Chelsea, and it half worked against United in a match we ultimately lost anyway.

In my opinion if you want to play 3 at the back effectively your players should play it week in and week out like Napoli and At Bilbao have done over the last couple of seasons. Otherwise, like City, and like Liverpool against Chelsea as well on Sunday, it's just too hit and miss and has too many frailties. Will work occasionally as a plan B, but that's about it.

It'll be interesting if we're ever in a situation where we've more or less wrapped up the league with maybe 10-15 matches to go to see if we try to institute it on a competitive level. I don't think we can afford to do it at this point.

 

[sergiokun]

352 will never be our first choice formation in the PL. As a second choice it will only work when conditions are optimal as they were on Sunday against Spurs.

So I realise it doesn't really answer your question but it doesn't matter whether it suits our squad collectively in terms of player characteristics or not ... it's only a plan B ... and as a plan B it's very limited as well.

If we are losing and we need to change the system it can work great like the spurs game just gone, it also worked well against Chelsea in the charity shield... I agree it won’t be or first choice formation in the premier league, maybe champions league?? I still think 4-2-3-1 is our best formation IMO

I also thing that 4231 is our best formation overall, and the 4222 we play quite regularly can work, but not always. Everyone keeps quoting Chelsea as the high water mark of the 352 but they forget that they only had ten men and had one up front, thereby allowing us to push the two wide centre halves out like fullbacks, so that the wingbacks could effectively play as midfielders. Against good sides (hint, like Real Madrid) this is hugely offset by the space you leave them to exploit out wide. As another example, see Liverpool away this year.


Yes Chelsea did go down to 10 men so that did help the 3-5-2 system we played, if we played it against Madrid or barca we would be murdered... playing the bigger teams we are more suited to 4-2-3-1 or even 5-3-2.... We should work on the formation still but use it to attack teams when we are losing

 

[Didsbury Dave]

this "It's a plan B" thing is shooting into popular fan mythology as a truth when it isn't.

Plan A: 4231 with Nasri and Silva as the creative players and one of our fowards wide
Plan B: 4222 with NAsri and Silva as the creative players and two forards up front
Plan C: 4231 with Ya Ya as an attacking midfielder (would be my plan A)

The 352 is coming in as a plan D at the moment. It is another alternative of course.

 

[Anonymous]

It'll be interesting if we're ever in a situation where we've more or less wrapped up the league with maybe 10-15 matches to go to see if we try to institute it on a competitive level. I don't think we can afford to do it at this point.

We played it all pre season so I half expected us to start the season with it to be honest.

 

[sergiokun]

If we are losing and we need to change the system it can work great like the spurs game just gone, it also worked well against Chelsea in the charity shield... I agree it won’t be or first choice formation in the premier league, maybe champions league?? is still think 4-2-3-1 is our best formation IMO

As I said in the post above, the only competitive game we've won whilst playing that way is Spurs on Sunday. Before that it worked in a friendly against Chelsea, and it half worked against United in a match we ultimately lost anyway.

In my opinion if you want to play 3 at the back effectively your players should play it week in and week out like Napoli and At Bilbao have done over the last couple of seasons. Otherwise, like City, and like Liverpool against Chelsea as well on Sunday, it's just too hit and miss and has too many frailties. Will work occasionally as a plan B, but that's about it.

It'll be interesting if we're ever in a situation where we've more or less wrapped up the league with maybe 10-15 matches to go to see if we try to institute it on a competitive level. I don't think we can afford to do it at this point.

Would love this to happen but can't see it being that easy :->

 

[BRUVS N BLUE]

I know many on here will say 4-2-3-1 and say why change a system what is not broken however if Aguero had not scored in injury time then the system would be broken as we failed to brake teams down on too many occasions. Mancini has come under criticism this season for trying the 3-5-2 system and unfairly IMO, this is what makes Mancini the great manager he is. The main problem with the 4-2-3-1 was the lack of width which everyone was saying last season. Compare this to 3-5-2 which gives us plenty of width it shows that Mancini is trying to give us different options and work on our weaknesses.

The main problem Mancini has though is there are certain key players who do not fit the system and some of this is Mancini's fault as he has bought good quality players and not played them to their strengths. For example;

Dzeko - is an predator, give him the service and he will score but it seems when he starts we dont give him service. We only seems to cross late on in the game when we need a goal.

Nasri - When played in the middle he is top class but he is wasted playing out wide. I don't think I have seen anyone keep the ball as well as Nasri and with a little bit more coaching he could be the man to solve our midfield problems especially in Europe.

Balotelli - When watching his play for Italy he is a different class and this is because he relishes playing as the furthest man forward and there are not many better strikers in the world for holding the ball up and drawing fouls from opponents. However he rarely gets this chance when playing for us.

Now if you were to pick players for a 4-2-3-1 based on their ability to the position then it would be;
--------------------- JH -----------------------
MR/ PZ ------ VK ---------- JL/ MN --------- GC
------------- GB ----------- JM/ JG ------------
DS ---------------- YT --------------------- AK
------------------- ED -------------------------

but with this we would have to leave 3 strikers out of the team this is where Mancini will play a striker for the sake of playing him as quite often we will see one of the striker playing out wide which does not help the team one bit.

Now if you were to pick players for the 3-5-2 it would be;
-------------------- JH ------------------------
--------- PZ --------VK ------- MN ------------
DM ---------------------------------------- AK
----------- YT -----GB ------- SN -----------
---------------CT --------- MB ------------------
Now for me this is our strongest team and formation as it has the right balance as Tevez will play as the link between the midfield and attack, Mario will play in his preferred role which he is effective at. Samir and Yaya will be able to get forward when possible and the wing backs can offer width and a quality delivery. However this leaves us having to keep Silva and Aguero out of the team as although they are better players they are less suited to the system.

Anyone got any other systems what could fit in all players?

seriously you should manager , good points , very well put

 

[Carver]

His issue is that he's using the 3-5-2 in an out and out attacking formation and we've been playing 3-3-4 with the wide players pushed so far up the field that we are too open to counter attack.

We're still learning it, but the players on the side not attacking with the ball have got to learn to prepare to drop (wide player level with centre circle) so that the middle defender (Kompany) can offer support to the side that we are attacking down in the event of a counter attack. Both wide players pushed up should only be a desperate last resort. Then when Vinnie brings the ball out of defence in this formation someone fast and not booked at the time needs to slot into the middle to cover when he loses the ball.

We seem to be getting too many strikers in a line waiting for the ball to come up to them giving no depth to the play. The Balotelli flick on route 1 goal against Ajax worked because even though we only had 2 men there we had depth in the play.

Above all we need to practice this throughout the season when we are ahead for use in Europe eventually (We are no where near good enough to use it in Europe yet). Unfortunately not many premier league sides are good enough to play against it and many European sides are.