Does 3-5-2 suit our players better than 4-2-3-1?

[Mike D]

Why's it limited? It's worked against Utd, Chelsea and Spurs.

That's a wildly subjective way of looking at it.

How many competitive games have we won from making the switch to 3 at the back?

How many seasons have we being playing this system now?

Its all very well burying your head in the sand saying its doesn't work it doesn't work but look at the side that it has worked they are non too shabby to say the least.

 

[Quinny851]

Why's it limited? It's worked against Utd, Chelsea and Spurs.

That's a wildly subjective way of looking at it.

How many competitive games have we won from making the switch to 3 at the back?

How many seasons have we being playing this system now?

Its all very well burying your head in the sand saying its doesn't work it doesn't work but look at the side that it has worked they are non too shabby to say the least.

As Billy has touched on in an earlier post, the main reason why it worked well against Spurs is because they played with 1 up front the same with Chelsea in the Charity Shield. Lennon and Bale were restricted to defensive duties because our full backs pushed on due to us having 3 centre halves to cover one striker (Adebayor and then Defoe).

Hypothetically, if they'd have brought on Defoe to play alongside Adebayor then we would have been in trouble as Lennon and Bale would have had opportunity to counter attack quicker with our full backs being higher up the pitch, potentially leaving 4 on 3.

Like others I always prefer a flat back 4 with 2 holding midfielders, Yaya and Silva attacking midfielders and then Aguero and Tevez.

The times the 3-5-2 has failed - Ajax away, Dortmund home, Madrid away, Liverpool away, Villa Capital One Cup (could be lying on that one though).

 

[Mike D]

That's a wildly subjective way of looking at it.

How many competitive games have we won from making the switch to 3 at the back?

How many seasons have we being playing this system now?

Its all very well burying your head in the sand saying its doesn't work it doesn't work but look at the side that it has worked they are non too shabby to say the least.

As Billy has touched on in an earlier post, the main reason why it worked well against Spurs is because they played with 1 up front the same with Chelsea in the Charity Shield. Lennon and Bale were restricted to defensive duties because our full backs pushed on due to us having 3 centre halves to cover one striker (Adebayor and then Defoe).

Hypothetically, if they'd have brought on Defoe to play alongside Adebayor then we would have been in trouble as Lennon and Bale would have had opportunity to counter attack quicker with our full backs being higher up the pitch, potentially leaving 4 on 3.

Like others I always prefer a flat back 4 with 2 holding midfielders, Yaya and Silva attacking midfielders and then Aguero and Tevez.

The times the 3-5-2 has failed - Ajax away, Dortmund home, Madrid away, Liverpool away, Villa Capital One Cup (could be lying on that one though).

So what you are saying is that the jury is still out on the system and as I've said in another thread if you have the right people in there who know how to play the system ie Kolarov and Maicon it does work.

I accept that it is still work in progress and we'll need more time before we get it perfect. But the tone of Billys suggest he was dismissing the idea as being limited in its appeal.

 

[Quinny851]

How many seasons have we being playing this system now?

Its all very well burying your head in the sand saying its doesn't work it doesn't work but look at the side that it has worked they are non too shabby to say the least.

As Billy has touched on in an earlier post, the main reason why it worked well against Spurs is because they played with 1 up front the same with Chelsea in the Charity Shield. Lennon and Bale were restricted to defensive duties because our full backs pushed on due to us having 3 centre halves to cover one striker (Adebayor and then Defoe).

Hypothetically, if they'd have brought on Defoe to play alongside Adebayor then we would have been in trouble as Lennon and Bale would have had opportunity to counter attack quicker with our full backs being higher up the pitch, potentially leaving 4 on 3.

Like others I always prefer a flat back 4 with 2 holding midfielders, Yaya and Silva attacking midfielders and then Aguero and Tevez.

The times the 3-5-2 has failed - Ajax away, Dortmund home, Madrid away, Liverpool away, Villa Capital One Cup (could be lying on that one though).

So what you are saying is that the jury is still out on the system and as I've said in another thread if you have the right people in there who know how to play the system ie Kolarov and Maicon it does work.

I accept that it is still work in progress and we'll need more time before we get it perfect. But the tone of Billys suggest he was dismissing the idea as being limited in its appeal.

I think like what most are saying, it worked ok against Spurs but a lot had to do with how they set up rather than the formation we played. For me, the jury is still well and truly out for the formation because it has appeared to have caused more good than bad (granted early days, more time required etc).

It will work but only if employed correctly and against the right opposition. If we come across a team who play a flat 4-4-2 or 4-1-2-1-2 with out and out wingers then I think it will fail. Then again if it's employed against a team who is only playing 1 up front ala Spurs and Chelsea then it's fine with me.

My only slight gripe with it is the personal Mancini chooses to play for it. In my opinion, I would like at least 2 centre halves to play in the back 3. For example against Spurs, I would have like Nastasic to stay on the pitch with Maicon coming on for Kolorov. Then we would have had

Zabba - VK - Nastasic
Maicon Barry - Yaya Clichy
Silva
Tevez - Aguero

I think we look a lot better down the left hand side with Clichy in there (Kolorov didn't put a foot wrong by the way) I just think Clichy has a better engine for getting forward and back again.

 

[SWP's back]

That's a wildly subjective way of looking at it.

How many competitive games have we won from making the switch to 3 at the back?

How many seasons have we being playing this system now?

Its all very well burying your head in the sand saying its doesn't work it doesn't work but look at the side that it has worked they are non too shabby to say the least.

As Billy has touched on in an earlier post, the main reason why it worked well against Spurs is because they played with 1 up front the same with Chelsea in the Charity Shield. Lennon and Bale were restricted to defensive duties because our full backs pushed on due to us having 3 centre halves to cover one striker (Adebayor and then Defoe).

Hypothetically, if they'd have brought on Defoe to play alongside Adebayor then we would have been in trouble as Lennon and Bale would have had opportunity to counter attack quicker with our full backs being higher up the pitch, potentially leaving 4 on 3.

Like others I always prefer a flat back 4 with 2 holding midfielders, Yaya and Silva attacking midfielders and then Aguero and Tevez.

The times the 3-5-2 has failed - Ajax away, Dortmund home, Madrid away, Liverpool away, Villa Capital One Cup (could be lying on that one though).

Dortmund at home? (I must be losing my memory)

And Ajax for about 5 minutes.

 

[Quinny851]

How many seasons have we being playing this system now?

Its all very well burying your head in the sand saying its doesn't work it doesn't work but look at the side that it has worked they are non too shabby to say the least.

As Billy has touched on in an earlier post, the main reason why it worked well against Spurs is because they played with 1 up front the same with Chelsea in the Charity Shield. Lennon and Bale were restricted to defensive duties because our full backs pushed on due to us having 3 centre halves to cover one striker (Adebayor and then Defoe).

Hypothetically, if they'd have brought on Defoe to play alongside Adebayor then we would have been in trouble as Lennon and Bale would have had opportunity to counter attack quicker with our full backs being higher up the pitch, potentially leaving 4 on 3.

Like others I always prefer a flat back 4 with 2 holding midfielders, Yaya and Silva attacking midfielders and then Aguero and Tevez.

The times the 3-5-2 has failed - Ajax away, Dortmund home, Madrid away, Liverpool away, Villa Capital One Cup (could be lying on that one though).

Dortmund at home? (I must be losing my memory)

And Ajax for about 5 minutes.

Dortmund at home just before they scored because I remember being pissed off that he was playing Clichy as a right centre half. Then as I think either Dave or Billy pointed out Ajax away when they scored 2 and effectively cost us the game.

Quote from <a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/03/champions-league-manchester-city-borussia-dortmund-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012 ... tmund-live</a>

57 min: Manchester City substitution: Aleksandr Kolarov on, Samir Nasri off.

58 min: Manchester City switch to a back three, with Vincent Kompany playing centre-back and Gael Clichy and Matija Nastasic to his left and right. Zabaleta and Kolarov are playing wing backs.

GOAL! Manchester City 0-1 Borussia Dortmund (Reus 60) Jack Rodwell is left hanging his head in shame after playing a loose pass without looking where it was going in midfield. Marco Reus sprints on to it, gallops through on goal like a rugby player greedily accepting an interception and flicks the ball past Joe Hart and into the bottom left-hand corner. Hart got a hand to the ball, but was unable to keep it out.

 

[SWP's back]

Shows my memory is failing. But we didn't do well with a back 4 either and goal was a poor error.

 

[Quinny851]

Shows my memory is failing. But we didn't do well with a back 4 either and goal was a poor error.

No I agree. We lost the midfield that night due to them having an extra centre midfielder, the 3-5-2 didn't improve us if anything it made weaker in the middle.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Shows my memory is failing. But we didn't do well with a back 4 either and goal was a poor error.

there have been more than that. Rm away we changed to it to preserve our lead. There was a period a few weeks ago when we were changing to it and back from it every game. Last season it failed badly twice in the carling cup against Liverpool. It's failed many more times than its worked.

 

[kabuverdimcfc]

I know many on here will say 4-2-3-1 and say why change a system what is not broken however if Aguero had not scored in injury time then the system would be broken as we failed to brake teams down on too many occasions. Mancini has come under criticism this season for trying the 3-5-2 system and unfairly IMO, this is what makes Mancini the great manager he is. The main problem with the 4-2-3-1 was the lack of width which everyone was saying last season. Compare this to 3-5-2 which gives us plenty of width it shows that Mancini is trying to give us different options and work on our weaknesses.

The main problem Mancini has though is there are certain key players who do not fit the system and some of this is Mancini's fault as he has bought good quality players and not played them to their strengths. For example;

Dzeko - is an predator, give him the service and he will score but it seems when he starts we dont give him service. We only seems to cross late on in the game when we need a goal.

Nasri - When played in the middle he is top class but he is wasted playing out wide. I don't think I have seen anyone keep the ball as well as Nasri and with a little bit more coaching he could be the man to solve our midfield problems especially in Europe.

Balotelli - When watching his play for Italy he is a different class and this is because he relishes playing as the furthest man forward and there are not many better strikers in the world for holding the ball up and drawing fouls from opponents. However he rarely gets this chance when playing for us.

Now if you were to pick players for a 4-2-3-1 based on their ability to the position then it would be;
--------------------- JH -----------------------
MR/ PZ ------ VK ---------- JL/ MN --------- GC
------------- GB ----------- JM/ JG ------------
DS ---------------- YT --------------------- AK
------------------- ED -------------------------

but with this we would have to leave 3 strikers out of the team this is where Mancini will play a striker for the sake of playing him as quite often we will see one of the striker playing out wide which does not help the team one bit.

Now if you were to pick players for the 3-5-2 it would be;
-------------------- JH ------------------------
--------- PZ --------VK ------- MN ------------
DM ---------------------------------------- AK
----------- YT -----GB ------- SN -----------
---------------CT --------- MB ------------------
Now for me this is our strongest team and formation as it has the right balance as Tevez will play as the link between the midfield and attack, Mario will play in his preferred role which he is effective at. Samir and Yaya will be able to get forward when possible and the wing backs can offer width and a quality delivery. However this leaves us having to keep Silva and Aguero out of the team as although they are better players they are less suited to the system.

Anyone got any other systems what could fit in all players?

Why not both? The 4-3-3 is the solution!

The system: 4-3-3
--------------------JH--------------------
MR-----------VK-----------JL-----------GC
--------------------JG--------------------
--------------DS----------YT-------------
-----------KA-------ED------------SN-----

In the defensive process, Yaya approaches to Barry, Kun supports our right back and Nasri our supports left back. Silva stay behind Dzeko for a counter attack. (4-2-3-1)
--------------------JH--------------------
MR-----------VK-----------JL-----------GC
--------------JG----------YT--------------
------KA----------DS-------------SN------
----------------------ED------------------

In the Offensive process Micah join in attack and Aguero approaches to Dzeko.(3-5-2)
--------------------JH--------------------
-------VK-----------JL-----------GC------
--------------------JG--------------------
---MR-------DS-------------YT-----JM----
-----------------KA------ED--------------

And we have a squad to do it:

DM: JG/JR
CM: YT/GB
OM: DS/SN
W: JM/SS
SS: KA/CT
S: ED/MB