But it does. For example gay marriage legalised in the Western ‘liberal’ world. Abortion vote in Ireland. Free movement for ‘normal ordinary people’ across Europe and not just the select few at the top who can afford it. The arc of the Western nations is toward a more liberal and tolerant society which is what the Trumps of this world are fighting against.
And no I don’t know what you mean by normal when you tacitedly endorse a rationale for Trump as upsetting ‘liberal faggots’ because that’s what is driving ‘normal people’. It’s like ordinary patriotic Americans voted for Trump meaning white steel workers in the mid-west. For some reason ‘ordinary patriotic Americans’ never means the black coffee waitress in LA struggling to make ends meet. This despite the fact she along with 3 million additional Americans voted for the other person. So much for ‘populism’ where it doesn’t actually mean you get the most votes.
If you want to align yourself with illiberal reactionary political thinking then that is your choice but don’t dress it up as bringing liberalism to the masses.
What is interesting here is that its full of pissed off people who all will have their own interpretation of certain things. As in the Brexit thread where the argument rages about what Leave meant and who knew what when voting in this thread I see a lot of references to the liberal elite, neo this neo that and so on. I am pretty sure that the people typing that will have different ideas as to who is in the liberal elite and so on. The vagueness draws people in but by its very nature is also dangerously open to interpretation.
I wouldnt put gay marriage and free movement in the same category. Doing so imo implies that if you agree with one you agree with the other. So if you don't agree with free movement for social/economic reason then you must be a righty who couldn't possibly agree with gay marriage.But it does. For example gay marriage legalised in the Western ‘liberal’ world. Abortion vote in Ireland. Free movement for ‘normal ordinary people’ across Europe and not just the select few at the top who can afford it. The arc of the Western nations is toward a more liberal and tolerant society which is what the Trumps of this world are fighting against.
And no I don’t know what you mean by normal when you tacitedly endorse a rationale for Trump as upsetting ‘liberal faggots’ because that’s what is driving ‘normal people’. It’s like ordinary patriotic Americans voted for Trump meaning white steel workers in the mid-west. For some reason ‘ordinary patriotic Americans’ never means the black coffee waitress in LA struggling to make ends meet. This despite the fact she along with 3 million additional Americans voted for the other person. So much for ‘populism’ where it doesn’t actually mean you get the most votes.
If you want to align yourself with illiberal reactionary political thinking then that is your choice but don’t dress it up as bringing liberalism to the masses.
I wouldnt put gay marriage and free movement in the same category. Doing so imo implies that if you agree with one you agree with the other. So if you don't agree with free movement for social/economic reason then you must be a righty who couldn't possibly agree with gay marriage.
IMO it's this packaging that is driving even moderate people to be angry. You vote for abortion you get water charges, you vote for free movement, you get the euro, etc.
Somehow people need to be able to select governments that offer a mix that they want. (No idea how this can be done though)
I wouldnt put gay marriage and free movement in the same category. Doing so imo implies that if you agree with one you agree with the other. So if you don't agree with free movement for social/economic reason then you must be a righty who couldn't possibly agree with gay marriage.
IMO it's this packaging that is driving even moderate people to be angry. You vote for abortion you get water charges, you vote for free movement, you get the euro, etc.
Somehow people need to be able to select governments that offer a mix that they want. (No idea how this can be done though)
Free movement is part of the Euro concept in that its all about reducing barriers. Monetary barriers, working barriers and borders. If we accept free movement of goods and capital it’s unacceptable to deny that freedom to all of the people and leave it to those that can afford to circumvent it. I still find it odd that we insist we will take away free movement from Europeans. Except we haven’t. Europeans will still have freedom of movement. The only citizens that will not have free movement is ourselves. We have voluntarily removed our own rights and freedoms. I think we may be the first nation in history to do so.
It would work if the EU was the exact same economic picture throughout and opportunities existed in all 27 countries and all 27 countries where seen as an opportunity for all to live and work and be successful.
People emigrate to Australia, New Zealand, Canada the USA in far greater numbers than they do to Zambia, Poland, Venezuela and Iceland as examples and they do so because of the opportunities those countries and economies present. Of course those countries have strict immigration rules because if they didn't, it would be open season for all to just go there and that for them is an undesirable prospect.
I see no issue whatsoever with their policies and rules that allows selective immigration should you meet the criteria they want.
Bringing all 27 EU nations into perfect economic harmony is a laudable goal but will never be achieved. Individual nations have their own regional economic disparity and in the case of the UK far more disparity than most European nations due to our very centralised system of Govt. The idea that people will ‘overrun’ one country unless you have strict controls is a nonsense as our own experience shows. The only time that can apply is in times of crisis (war, famine etc) and these conditions do not apply in the E27. Is London swamped by Scots and Welsh due to our own open borders and the huge regional discrepancy with our London centric economy? No. People on the whole do not move far. In Europe with its open borders and free movement France is still France and Germany still Germany with their own distinctive cultures and languages. Isolating ourselves is not the answer. Let people be free.
People who say things like that are the reason there is an ignore option.Lol, 'statesman'
He is a profiteer and no more
He's a man who lives in the states, so technically true.People who say things like that are the reason there is an ignore option.
Also means he has a 50:50 chance of being a mouth breathing creationist.He's a man who lives in the states, so technically true.
I'm embarrassed by a lot of Americans but I don't think 50% are that stupid.Also means he has a 50:50 chance of being a mouth breathing creationist.
Unlucky for you (and the human race)I'm embarrassed by a lot of Americans but I don't think 50% are that stupid.
Actually I don't have a problem with people believing in creationism, there are multiple theories of it and some also agree with evolution. Plus prophetic Christians are fine people, it's just the evangelicals who see Christianity as a reason to hate/persecute who are the problem.
Hahaha.there are multiple theories of it and some also agree with evolution
That's like saying I'd don't have a problem with people that think they can fly, admittedly it doesn't effect your everyday life, but they're still fucking idiots.Actually I don't have a problem with people believing in creationism, there are multiple theories of it and some also agree with evolution. Plus prophetic Christians are fine people, it's just the evangelicals who see Christianity as a reason to hate/persecute who are the problem.
He’s beyond stupid, like his supporters.Looks like Trump has been his own worst enemy again by admitting that his steel and aluminium tariffs are in response to Canadian dairy tariffs rather than for national security reasons as he had previously said. This leaves open the opportunity for the tariffs to be challenged in court.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...otive-blows-up-legal-basis-for-trade-war.html