Donald Trump

Because ultimately Russia will win or at least pretty much keep what they have now. it's just a case of making them waste as much blood and treasure as possible to do so. Same as Russia arming the north Vietnamese, the US arming the Mujahedeen - the list goes ever on. It's a proxy war to bleed Russia, test western weaponry and enrich the arms industry. If we can seize frozen russian assets to pay the defence industry for the weapons Ukraine uses to fire at Russia then so much the better.
What you’ve described in the rest of your post is somewhat at odds with your first five words. And you didn’t even mention sanctions and the tanking Russian economy. In what way would you say they will have won?
 
What you’ve described in the rest of your post is somewhat at odds with your first five words. And you didn’t even mention sanctions and the tanking Russian economy. In what way would you say they will have won?
I'd say they have won in terms of territory - they have the bits of Ukraine they regard as 'russian' and Crimea. Obviously at cost they will continue to pay while we arm the Ukrainians. I tend to look at the reality of occupied territory rather than the propaganda from either side - which of course tends to claim great victories every day.
 
I'd say they have won in terms of territory - they have the bits of Ukraine they regard as 'russian' and Crimea. Obviously at cost they will continue to pay while we arm the Ukrainians. I tend to look at the reality of occupied territory rather than the propaganda from either side - which of course tends to claim great victories every day.
Looking at the territory stolen is a hugely simplistic way of looking at it, if the price is economic disaster, international isolation and fucking your national demographics even more. Any sane person would not see that as a price worth paying, assuming those things continue.

It’s akin to someone trespassing into another person’s house, squatting in their spare room, where they can’t leave the room at any point, or eat or drink anything, and have to shit in the corner - and claiming victory in a property dispute.
 
Looking at the territory stolen is a hugely simplistic way of looking at it, if the price is economic disaster, international isolation and fucking your national demographics even more. Any sane person would not see that as a price worth paying, assuming those things continue.

It’s akin to someone trespassing into another person’s house, squatting in their spare room, where they can’t leave the room at any point, or eat or drink anything, and have to shit in the corner - and claiming victory in a property dispute.
Assuming we don't have a nuclear conflict this will all end with the leaders round a table saving face and all claiming victory. Can't come soon enough
 

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