Dunkirk ( the film )

che_don_john said:
I take your point and I'll often make concessions for the ambiguity and contexts of morality and ethics, but then there were plenty of people at that time who weren't like that, so I don't think that 'being of that time' is always necessarily a viable excuse. I'd happily make the same criticism of other world leaders of that time if warranted.

Also, by that same logic you would also have to excuse most of the Nazi hierarchy for their attitudes, but of course few would do so. Judging yesterday by today's moral standards is reasonable because that is the nature of morality and ethics; they evolve over time, through deliberation and considered philosophy, as we aim to improve them, which means that we can legitimately look back on things and say "we were wrong to think that". The human species wouldn't have survived this long had we not gone through the process of re-assessing our morals and ethics and critiquing our past.

Also, we're not talking about the medieval period here; Churchill was 20th century, well after the Enlightenment (when most of the values we take for granted today were born); so if anything, his attitudes were quite regressive. Much of what he did in India and the Middle East is still in living memory to some people.
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Fair comments, but we could also examine another much lauded figure, who would not fit into today's accepted standards
but hardly ever receives censure. Abraham Lincoln, via the emancipation of slaves pronouncement, was never originally an abolitionist,
was against equality, and was for repatriation of black people, a stance that would nowadays put him beyond the pale
and ensure his immediate removal from public life. I mention him, as his subsequent virtual deification is the equal of Churchill's,
but whatever, the film is a cracker.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Fair comments, but we could also examine another much lauded figure, who would not fit into today's accepted standards
but hardly ever receives censure. Abraham Lincoln, via the emancipation of slaves pronouncement, was never originally an abolitionist,
was against equality, and was for repatriation of black people, a stance that would nowadays put him beyond the pale
and ensure his immediate removal from public life. I mention him, as his subsequent virtual deification is the equal of Churchill's,
but whatever, the film is a cracker.
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Yes, totally correct. In fact, there is a lot of mythology surrounding the American Civil War. The one that stands out for me is this idea that the Confederates were the evil racists and the Unionists were the angelic emancipators; the truth is that a number of Unionists and Union states were pro slavery, and the Unionist army were awfully brutal in their treatment of prisoners of war.

People seem to think that post-truth is a modern phenomenon, but examples like those of the Founding Fathers, Lincoln, Churchill and Ghandi shows that it's always been a problem.
 
che_don_john said:
Also, the Churchill bit at the end was a bit cheesy and probably could have just finished with the drinking the beer (but then I think Churchill was a nobhead, so that's just a personal thing).
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So the person voted by the great British public as the greatest ever Briton was in fact a knobhead.

100 Greatest Britons - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

BBC - Press Office - The Greatest Briton of all

bbc.co.uk/pressoffice is the online BBC Press Office. This contains the latest BBC press releases; current and archived programme information; biographies of BBC staff; key information to answer frequently asked questions
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Bill Walker said:
So the person voted by the great British public as the greatest ever Briton was in fact a knobhead.

100 Greatest Britons - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

BBC - Press Office - The Greatest Briton of all

bbc.co.uk/pressoffice is the online BBC Press Office. This contains the latest BBC press releases; current and archived programme information; biographies of BBC staff; key information to answer frequently asked questions
www.bbc.co.uk
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How have you bumped this thread with a direct quote?! Did you wake up and remember what this poster had put and decided to reply - 7 years later? ;-)
 
LangleyBlue1970 said:
How have you bumped this thread with a direct quote?! Did you wake up and remember what this poster had put and decided to reply - 7 years later? ;-)
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I watched the film and looked for an existing thread about it, then noticed this comment.

I thought it was a bit "oh okay then "that millions voted for Winston as the greatest and yet even though he led the country against Adolf Hitler, to some he was simply a knobhead.

Hope that explains things for you Langley mate.

Great film by the way...9/10
 
Keeper! said:
100% agree, was so looking forward to it and I thought it was utter tosh.
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I was looking forward to it… and it was a bit meh…

I remember reading, as a kid, this

www.amazon.com/Ride-Out-Storm-John-Harris/dp/0755102347#

Ride out the storm - John Harris.

… which laid the groundwork for what I was expecting from a film, I suppose.

Very good book, and was the 1st time (along with Charley’s war from Battle picture weekly) I realised that war, isn’t all ‘tally ho chaps’
 
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