Dynamo Kiev - Post Match Thread

Atmosphere wasn't very good in South stand last night. Few songs got going but most people seemed to be pissed off. Personally I thought we should be glad we've got to the quarters and it was job done.

We've got a lot of spoilt fans but at same time we've not played well fir ages.
 
mad zab said:
Those sort of incidents have been happening all season in our defence. I would also say Van Dijk/Fonte along with Alderweild/Vertoghen have been better centre half pairings than ours.

I also believe the biggest weakness in our defence is the way we play the offside trap. We hold the 18 yard line. This is a visible line that helps the attacking team when trying to break it down. Making it easier fort hem to time their runs. The fact our defence has been poor has put pressure on our forwards to score at least 2 per game. Of course there are other teams with poor defences, but I am only concerned about City.
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I disagree fundamentally about our offside trap. I think it's the biggest virtue in our defensive set up and I can't understand why anyone would question its effectiveness. In fact unless i'm mistaken the media were positively purring about it after our great start to the season.

I understand fully the we focus on our own team and not others but the season is not played out in a vacuum and you can learn a lot from putting your own performances in the context of the way everyone else has performed. In my opinion anyway.
 
mad zab said:
Those sort of incidents have been happening all season in our defence. I would also say Van Dijk/Fonte along with Alderweild/Vertoghen have been better centre half pairings than ours.

I also believe the biggest weakness in our defence is the way we play the offside trap. We hold the 18 yard line. This is a visible line that helps the attacking team when trying to break it down. Making it easier fort hem to time their runs. The fact our defence has been poor has put pressure on our forwards to score at least 2 per game. Of course there are other teams with poor defences, but I am only concerned about City.
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We will find see that taken apart in the next round unfortunately.
 
I was sat just behind the Kiev subs bench last night. First time I've been that close to the game since we moved to the stadium.

I saw David Silva several times shouting to Pellers to get someone to cover him as the players tried to press in the second half.

Not sure if Pellers took any notice of his concerns. David looked really peed off when he was subbed.
 
Our offside trap is only effective when Kompany is marshalling it. When he's not its hands up in the air and hope for the best.
 
BillyShears said:
I disagree fundamentally about our offside trap. I think it's the biggest virtue in our defensive set up and I can't understand why anyone would question its effectiveness. In fact unless i'm mistaken the media were positively purring about it after our great start to the season.

I understand fully the we focus on our own team and not others but the season is not played out in a vacuum and you can learn a lot from putting your own performances in the context of the way everyone else has performed. In my opinion anyway.
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We will have to agree to disagree on that Billy. Our offside trap is woeful and is a very big part of our defensive frailties IMO.
 
BillyShears said:
I feel like we're a team caught between two stools this season. We have since Mancini's days been a possession based team which likes to keep the ball and pass the opposition to death. We lacked pace but we made up for that by passing teams to death and with clever movement. However we started this season in scintillating form as a much more counter attacking side with pace down both flanks in Sterling and Navas and Silva essentially playing in a midfield trio with Toure and Dinho. Maybe it's too much to say we were a counter attacking side, but we had the balance absolute spot on so we could keep possession if we needed to, but counter if we needed.

For various reasons that balance has slowly gone out of the side and we've only seen it really in the CL since those early parts of the season. Like many of these things depending on your point of view you can blame the manager solely, you can blame injuries + the manager, or you can blame the weather or the Pep announcement. For me I'd just like to see us give a really good account of ourselves in the what's left of the CL and what's left of the league.
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You know my feelings regarding the manager, I think he is terrible, but even I wouldn't deny it is a mixture of things and he has been very unlucky as well as being rubbish. I think the attacking players look really devoid of confidence at the moment and I find that really worrying. This is probably off topic to some extent as I wasn't too concerned by last night at all (injury to Vinny aside) because I think we deliberately strolled it because Kiev showed right from the off that they were not going to make a genuine fist of things. But in matches that do matter this lack of confidence is leading players to take safe options, always an extra touch, more likely to look for a safe pass than a killer pass, not taking defenders on etc. Against packed defences which is all we seem to face in the league those extra touches and safe options utterly kill you. Somehow we need to get a bit of confidence and start playing with a bit of freedom and instinct otherwise I genuinely see us finishing 6th or 7th.
 
BillyShears said:
I disagree fundamentally about our offside trap. I think it's the biggest virtue in our defensive set up and I can't understand why anyone would question its effectiveness. In fact unless i'm mistaken the media were positively purring about it after our great start to the season.

I understand fully the we focus on our own team and not others but the season is not played out in a vacuum and you can learn a lot from putting your own performances in the context of the way everyone else has performed. In my opinion anyway.
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And how many 'offside' goals have we conceded ?

Just on the cusp of being offside, I think Gary Neville calls it. Relying on a linesman's call, when we know they are shite.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
You're making an absolute idiot of yourself, I have been a season ticket holder since 1989 when I was first in a position to buy one. You know nothing about me and this is my point. If you look (I'm sure you can't be arsed), you will find that I didn't post yesterday between about 3pm and this morning at about 9am because I now live in Wales so I have to leave fairly early and I get back fairly late. But you know people can post on here on a smart phone from the ground and I have done that in the past so even people posting doesn't necessarily prove anything. You just sound like someone trying to say that you're a better blue than others and that your opinion is more valid and I hate that. The reason I specifically took exception to your post was that I think you were putting forward some kind of narrative that the negative posters are all part of your "armchair brigade" which firstly got on my tits because I was there, can't really be accused of being an armchair fan but felt like it was a lazy attempt to devalue the opinion of all posters who are currently being negative (which would include my opinion hence me picking you up on it). And I was interested in what I see as a ridiculous irony that the person you were wholeheartedly agreeing with and mentioning the armchair brigade to probably didn't go. (Apologies if you did go last night Billy but my understanding is that you don't get to many games these days as you now live abroad, sorry if I have this wrong. And rest assured if I am correct, I don't judge your opinion on whether you go or not).
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Whether anyone goes or not is a good method of judging how true a fan is but not necessarily conclusive. People typing on a phone either in or just leaving a ground is beyond my ken. Why would anyone want to do that walking in a crowd in the dark, even leaving out the physical difficulties in doing it? Please do not ever do that in front of me as I am in a hurry to get home or you might just get an ankle tap to remind you of the folly of your selfish ways.

Would you consider watching a documentary about Spain a substitute for going on holiday? That's what the armchair brigade do although I am not sure if they flock to post on the internet after watching in the same way. And worse it seems that those who watch BT find themselves absorbing the views of Scholes Ferdinand etc.

You are very supportive of TVs and phones. Do you have shares in electronic companies?
 
Neville Kneville said:
And how many 'offside' goals have we conceded ?

Just on the cusp of being offside, I think Gary Neville calls it. Relying on a linesman's call, when we know they are shite.
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The total issue with offside and has been with lots of people for a long time. At times we have been impeccable with our stepping up but it isn't the point, you're still putting everything in the hands of some two bob linesman rather than the defender you've spent 30 million quid on. I'd rather we trusted our players to track runners and try to cut out passes than rely on the officials.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
The total issue with offside and has been with lots of people for a long time. At times we have been impeccable with our stepping up but it isn't the point, you're still putting everything in the hands of some two bob linesman rather than the defender you've spent 30 million quid on. I'd rather we trusted our players to track runners and try to cut out passes than rely on the officials.
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That's a subjective preference though. How many goals have we conceded this season because our offside trap failed or the linesman made a bad call? I bet it's a fraction of the total number of goals we've conceded.
 
Bottom line is that 0-0 was job done. It's a clean sheet which is something to be happy with. I think the problem goes way beyond Pellegrini. The board have managed the club poorly since the sacking of Mancini. Despite the whole "holistic" approach being repeated, at first team level it's become incredibly stale. Yes they've invested in the academy and yes that's in better shape than ever. It might not have been a good decision to introduce some youngsters into the squad earlier, but equally it's been piss poor squad management at first team level by failing to improve the squad and making too many short term fixes and not signing enough quality.

I get that FFP has forced our hand but you can't be happy with what Mangala and Otamendi have added for their combined transfer fees - when you look at how solid defensively Spurs and Leicester have been (and the cost of their centre halves) have we just thrown money at players. They never seem to fit our defensive "style" whatever that means. I assume it means play a high line and hope you don't concede based on our performances at the back in certain games. Injuries have taken their toll without doubt, and Pellegrini hasn't rotated enough or managed the squad particularly well in my opinion. We've had 4-4-2 at questionable times and 4-3-3s with odd positioning and it's just been a bit too inconsistent.

I love City though and for all the negative feeling, we've won a trophy and we're in the quarters and with a good draw might make the semi finals where anything can happen. Some players have naturally come to the end of their careers and players like Nacho, Sterling and De Bruyne are young and can be key to us in future years. The academy is in good shape and we've signed a managed who elevates us to a whole new level in terms of attracting top players. There is no need to panic. As poor as we've been, we're still able to finish in the top 3, we could still win it. Leicester's last three games could all result in losses and funnier things have happened in football.

I hope the derby serves an opportunity for the players to show they care, to fight for the shirt as they've done before. A win could really kick us on in the league and with the inconsistency others have shown we should then be confident of CL qualification next time around.

That aside you can't help but be disappointed that City haven't taken the opportunity of other teams poor form to win this league more easily. We should have done so, it's an opportunity missed and three times in 5 years would have been an excellent headline for the club. I'll never give up hope until it's mathematically impossible though. We all know City like to do things the hard way!
 
GaudinoMotors said:
That lovely catch all word "negativity" again.
We all know it's not possible to thank our lucky stars, appreciate where we are and still post analysis and concerns.
Hope the executors aren't called too soon.
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I could use stronger words than negativity but after a couple of hours defending myself and my team after a good and historic result I am fading a bit. If I had got home in time and gone in a pub where the rag fans would have been less critical of City and of course would not been given the abuse one gets on here from 'the armchair brigade keyboard warriors'.

Thank you for your wishing me a 'stay of execution'. After putting my sons through decade of City crap the best part of the first league win was to see their joy in us winning. I want to be around to see them joyful as City lift that CL trophy as much as I despise UEFA. In fact because I despise UEFA.
 
supercity88 said:
Bottom line is that 0-0 was job done. It's a clean sheet which is something to be happy with. I think the problem goes way beyond Pellegrini. The board have managed the club poorly since the sacking of Mancini. Despite the whole "holistic" approach being repeated, at first team level it's become incredibly stale. Yes they've invested in the academy and yes that's in better shape than ever. It might not have been a good decision to introduce some youngsters into the squad earlier, but equally it's been piss poor squad management at first team level by failing to improve the squad and making too many short term fixes and not signing enough quality.

I get that FFP has forced our hand but you can't be happy with what Mangala and Otamendi have added for their combined transfer fees - when you look at how solid defensively Spurs and Leicester have been (and the cost of their centre halves) have we just thrown money at players. They never seem to fit our defensive "style" whatever that means. I assume it means play a high line and hope you don't concede based on our performances at the back in certain games. Injuries have taken their toll without doubt, and Pellegrini hasn't rotated enough or managed the squad particularly well in my opinion. We've had 4-4-2 at questionable times and 4-3-3s with odd positioning and it's just been a bit too inconsistent.

I love City though and for all the negative feeling, we've won a trophy and we're in the quarters and with a good draw might make the semi finals where anything can happen. Some players have naturally come to the end of their careers and players like Nacho, Sterling and De Bruyne are young and can be key to us in future years. The academy is in good shape and we've signed a managed who elevates us to a whole new level in terms of attracting top players. There is no need to panic. As poor as we've been, we're still able to finish in the top 3, we could still win it. Leicester's last three games could all result in losses and funnier things have happened in football.

I hope the derby serves an opportunity for the players to show they care, to fight for the shirt as they've done before. A win could really kick us on in the league and with the inconsistency others have shown we should then be confident of CL qualification next time around.

That aside you can't help but be disappointed that City haven't taken the opportunity of other teams poor form to win this league more easily. We should have done so, it's an opportunity missed and three times in 5 years would have been an excellent headline for the club. I'll never give up hope until it's mathematically impossible though. We all know City like to do things the hard way!
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I enjoyed reading that. Thanks.
 
Pablo1 said:
Haha! Your observation skills are letting you down but the cynicism is alive and well.
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I used to say that my cynicism was finely honed after years of years of hard and bitter experience of life and watching City. The bitter part became a little tricky to use when dealing with rags but neither my observation or cynicism let me down. Quite the opposite, as reliable as ever.
 
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