Electric cars

[Bluesince1979]

With the clean air charges coming into GTR manc in 2023 (£10 every time i enter gtr manc ) im looking at potential charges of £40 a week for working as my van is a year too old

so … do i buy a newer diesel van , some decent deals out there, or go balls out for an electric one , still very expensive.

or keep my van and put cost of the charges onto the customer

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

EV's are not the answer to climate change. They may go a long way towards solving localised air quality issues, which is a good thing but in terms of climate change they are not the answer.

Addressing the vehicles themselves:

Production methods and costs - pretty much on par with conventional vehicles in terms of raw materials and energy input. The biggest downsides to to EV's is the environmental impacts of the batteries themselves in terms of the pollution caused by mining the finite supply of rare earth metals and the end of life recycling processes.

Charging infrastructure - Nowhere near the capacity required. Not just charging stations, but power generation and the associated transmission infrastructure. Unless the energy used to charge them is directly derived from environmentally friendlier sources they are still indirectly responsible for CO2 emissions.

When you consider that a small number of super tankers produce the equivalent CO2 emissions and pollution as ALL THE CARS on the planet why are we wasting our time fighting CO2 production with EV's when time/money would be better spent improving the efficiency of conventionally fuelled vehicles and hydrogen fuel cell technology?

 

[Manchester33]

Thinking of trading in my diesel for a Kia E-Niro or similar.

You can get some good lease deals these days that'll work out cheaper than running my fully-owned vehicle.

I drive the Kia Niro hybrid. Can't recommend it enough. If it had a German badge on the front the car would cost double what I'm paying. As someone who's drive Mercs, Audis, VWs and BMWs its comfortably my favourite car so far. Just wish I'd gone full-electric now.

Another car I test drove was the all-electric Hyundai Ioniq. It was brilliant too and probably cheaper to lease than the E-Niro.

 

[Manchester33]

Good news today - the UK has 26k charging points. The industry reckons we need over 1m.
There are only 6% of qualified mechanics qualified to work on EV's

Grant Shapps thinks we are doing just fine.

Good luck non-petrolheads

This is somewhat misleading.

I agree charging points need to expand and be improved - but that will come naturally as supple rises.

The point about qualified mechanics is pointless waffle. Electric cars need a fraction of the mechanical work that ICE cars require. The reason your post is misleading is that '6% of qualified mechanics' would probably be enough (if not far off the amount required) to service the entire UK if every car was electric.

 

[Manchester33]

EV's are not the answer to climate change. They may go a long way towards solving localised air quality issues, which is a good thing but in terms of climate change they are not the answer.

Addressing the vehicles themselves:

Production methods and costs - pretty much on par with conventional vehicles in terms of raw materials and energy input. The biggest downsides to to EV's is the environmental impacts of the batteries themselves in terms of the pollution caused by mining the finite supply of rare earth metals and the end of life recycling processes.

Charging infrastructure - Nowhere near the capacity required. Not just charging stations, but power generation and the associated transmission infrastructure. Unless the energy used to charge them is directly derived from environmentally friendlier sources they are still indirectly responsible for CO2 emissions.

When you consider that a small number of super tankers produce the equivalent CO2 emissions and pollution as ALL THE CARS on the planet why are we wasting our time fighting CO2 production with EV's when time/money would be better spent improving the efficiency of conventionally fuelled vehicles and hydrogen fuel cell technology?

I don't think anyone is saying they are the answer to climate change. But we have to move away from this pointless logic that we can somehow make fossil fuels incredibly efficient and neutral to our environment. We need to collectively accept that the logical way forward is to wean ourselves off them for good.

The simplest way to resolve the energy capacity issues you describe is nuclear power. The existing technology is incredibly efficient and very clean. This would give us enough time to improve renewable forms of energy and reduce our energy requirements.

The complaints about battery production are valid. But I'd argue the lifespan of a battery (which will improve) swings the argument back in the favour of electric vehicles. Before the pandemic, the UK used around 47 billion litres of fuel for our vehicles. If every car in the UK was electric and the batteries lasted for 6 years (which is incredibly conservative) we'd save around 300 billion litres of fuel being extracted.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

This is somewhat misleading.

I agree charging points need to expand and be improved - but that will come naturally as supple rises.

The point about qualified mechanics is pointless waffle. Electric cars need a fraction of the mechanical work that ICE cars require. The reason your post is misleading is that '6% of qualified mechanics' would probably be enough (if not far off the amount required) to service the entire UK if every car was electric.

I think the 'qualified mechanics' bit relates to the electrical side of the vehicle, not the mechanical. I'm guessing it's similar to the MAC F-Gas qualification for recharging vehicle air conditioning in that only a small percentage of mechanics are qualified to undertake the work.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I don't think anyone is saying they are the answer to climate change. But we have to move away from this pointless logic that we can somehow make fossil fuels incredibly efficient and neutral to our environment. We need to collectively accept that the logical way forward is to wean ourselves off them for good.

The simplest way to resolve the energy capacity issues you describe is nuclear power. The existing technology is incredibly efficient and very clean. This would give us enough time to improve renewable forms of energy and reduce our energy requirements.

The complaints about battery production are valid. But I'd argue the lifespan of a battery (which will improve) swings the argument back in the favour of electric vehicles. Before the pandemic, the UK used around 47 billion litres of fuel for our vehicles. If every car in the UK was electric and the batteries lasted for 6 years (which is incredibly conservative) we'd save around 300 billion litres of fuel being extracted.

Given the lead time of any new nuclear power plant is pretty high (upwards of 20 years in some cases) there would have to be a significant increase in planning and construction very soon in order to cope with the future demands.

 

[bugsyblue]

Good news today - the UK has 26k charging points. The industry reckons we need over 1m.
There are only 6% of qualified mechanics qualified to work on EV's

Grant Shapps thinks we are doing just fine.

Good luck non-petrolheads

It's really odd how you continue to come on this thread to just bash electric cars. Why don't you leave it to the "non-petrolheads" to comment on whether they find there's not enough charge points or mechanics? I'd be interested to hear from those directly in the know.

From my own personal experience, I've not had any problems with either. Anyone who owns an EV struggled with the points raised?

 

[bluethrunthru]

It's really odd how you continue to come on this thread to just bash electric cars. Why don't you leave it to the "non-petrolheads" to comment on whether they find there's not enough charge points or mechanics? I'd be interested to hear from those directly in the know.

From my own personal experience, I've not had any problems with either. Anyone who owns an EV struggled with the points raised?

Maybe for the same reason you will post to bash the rags? You don't think supporting the rags is ultimately the way forward for football supporters and I don't think that EV's in their present form are the answer for cars - its how forums work mate.

Why do you think Johnson Mathey today announced they are stopping investing in car battery production because they don't think that ultimately the returns will be there for them? EV's that we have today will remain a niche product as people will keep running their diesel. petrol and hybrid vehicles that they have today until they are completely done. I doubt any Govt would have the balls to price poor people off the road because of what they drive and as you can see at the COP conference air travel, shipping, heating buildings and so on are the things we really need to act upon.

 

[Mike N]

I don’t know very much about cars even though I’ve been driving for 35 years. A guy I know recently got a Tesler and he took me out for a drive. Jesus wept, it’s rapid. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced similar exceleration in a car in my life, and in silence. The nearest thing I’ve got to that is a rollercoaster!