Electric cars

[fulabeer]

Its alright having a huge battery but the charging time will go up at least in proportion.

One the other problems with everyone having electric cars in a household, is that you cant all charge the car. You are limited by the incoming cable from the local substation which in many houses is only rated at 80A. A 7kW charger will use around 30A of that, you need another 40A minimum to cover your domestics when running at peak, that leaves bugger all for a second or third car which many households have these days, due to kids not leaving home until later.

Most local substations are also not rated to allow all properties to be drawing full load current.

Bottom line is that underinvestment in infrastructure will hold back adoption of EVs much more than the range.

I'm really not enjoying sticking up for EV's, but feel they are getting unfair media against them...here goes!

First battery size isn't always directly related to charge speed/time. The charging systems voltage has a big bearing. So a 400 volt system will not charge as quick as a 800 voltage system. Newer cars are able to make use of increasingly higher voltage systems. This is enabling much much quicker charge times even as range increases. Home charging does not benefit from that though. (even 3 phase)

You are right that older households do have limits on available amperage. Most home chargers have a amperage monitoring system. So they will reduce charging amps if the system becomes overloaded or nears the household threshold.
Most people do not charge their cars everyday. And that is with current batteries. As EV range increases, the need will reduce even further.
So, most multi EV car households alternate which car goes on charge overnight. Also there is no need to charge/run with a 100% charge. We normally only charge to 80%, 100% when we know we need to travel far. Obviously, you can charge anytime, but most deals are for overnight charging.

Local substations are massively under utilised overnight. This can actually cause problems with supply balancing. EV charging at least for the near future, actually has no effect.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

Time in put my tuppence worth. I have owned my First Edition eNiro now for just short of 5 years so I think I am a bit used to it by now. When we first had it I must admit to a bit of anxiety but like when I first got an ICE car 55 years ago you work out how far you can get on a 'tank' and where to fill up; especially at night when fuel stations were often shut - not a lot of motorways in those days. Most people on here wouldn't recognise this: we even carried a gallon can in the boot.

So today I never have any trouble 'filling up' on the move. Quite easy to find a charging station. Even when we go to the lakes (remember we live in Boston) there are charging points we can use - we usually park the car up overnight.

I am lucky in that I have a drive and can plug in at home and I hear people bleating on about not being that lucky but how many ICE owners are able to fill up at home? You just have to think differently. Every car spends most of it's time parked up during the day. There are more and more places where you can plug in go do your shopping, go for a meal etc. Yes it needs a bit of forethought before you set off but my EV costs a fraction to run (£75 service every year), 4p a mile. Yes I know they are expensive but so we're ICE cars back in the day that is why there was so little traffic. The price will come down and charging points and rates will improve. Just ask the horse and cart what will happen.

 

[Kompany Car]

I'm really not enjoying sticking up for EV's, but feel they are getting unfair media against them...here goes!

First battery size isn't always directly related to charge speed/time. The charging systems voltage has a big bearing. So a 400 volt system will not charge as quick as a 800 voltage system. Newer cars are able to make use of increasingly higher voltage systems. This is enabling much much quicker charge times even as range increases. Home charging does not benefit from that though. (even 3 phase)

You are right that older households do have limits on available amperage. Most home chargers have a amperage monitoring system. So they will reduce charging amps if the system becomes overloaded or nears the household threshold.
Most people do not charge their cars everyday. And that is with current batteries. As EV range increases, the need will reduce even further.
So, most multi EV car households alternate which car goes on charge overnight. Also there is no need to charge/run with a 100% charge. We normally only charge to 80%, 100% when we know we need to travel far. Obviously, you can charge anytime, but most deals are for overnight charging.

Local substations are massively under utilised overnight. This can actually cause problems with supply balancing. EV charging at least for the near future, actually has no effect.

My comments were with respect to home charging which is what makes EVs cost effective at the moment.

As regards local substations, I can tell you now that the DNOs are not prepared for everyone to switch to EV, in many areas the 33kV transformers are running at 90%+ of their maximum kVA rating, this is 1 step back from your local 11kV to 415V sub. The chargers also generate significant harmonics back onto the supply as they are buck boost converters.

Local sub loading is lower on a night, but if everyone has their car to start charging at bang on midnight your load will suddenly increase causing a surge. Lets put it this way, when you have an electric oven and hob running, you might be pulling 7kW for say 2 hrs (when youre cooking sunday lunch). The EV is pulling that every hour for at least 5hrs until it reaches around 80% where it will back down to a lower charge. Start having multiple EVs across many households and its gonna become an issue.

This is not a comment knocking EVs, more an issue of infrastructure underinvestment for the last 40yrs which, if everyone switches to EVs will need billions spending to upgrade the network. Likewise homebuilders, planning departments and power companies need to make sure its considered and the infrastructure put in place which is sufficient for the future. Every infrastructure project I work on these days, all you hear about is minimum viable product, which in general business parlance means, what will do for the next few years. If we had built everything in the UK like that in the 50 and 60s we would be screwed and we are currently making a massive mistake

 

[1961_vintage]

Cheers bud, just doesn't feel right driving a Porsche with no engine grunt!

If it's anything like the Taycan you can have that sound added!

But the torque alone is enough to put a smile on anyones face.

 

[fulabeer]

I think it daft to be actively anti EV. They are the future right now whether people want them or not.
They may not be as green as they are made out to be, but who is against having cars that don't emit fumes around the air you breath in. Like smoking in pubs, it's only now the clouds of smoke have gone do you see how stupid it was.

I agree they might not suit your lifestyle at the moment, or are still too impractical. But that isn't to say it justifies being "anti EV". The "i'm never having a EV" brigade will change their minds at some point. Being stubborn is just stupid.

Rolls Royce made a good living offering near silent cars with imperceptible gear changes with "ample" power available.
You can now get that in a £16k EV!
A car that can charge for less than £5.
A car that doesn't need Oil and many filters/cams belts/injectors/DPF emission crap bolted on.
A car who's brakes basically don't wear out.

I think the problem is some people resist change.
Then add in a dose of propaganda from "certain" industries that might be affected.
I still love my ICE cars, but for day to day motoring, they are being outmoded.

 

[Cassandra]

I think it daft to be actively anti EV. They are the future right now whether people want them or not.
They may not be as green as they are made out to be, but who is against having cars that don't emit fumes around the air you breath in. Like smoking in pubs, it's only now the clouds of smoke have gone do you see how stupid it was.

I agree they might not suit your lifestyle at the moment, or are still too impractical. But that isn't to say it justifies being "anti EV". The "i'm never having a EV" brigade will change their minds at some point. Being stubborn is just stupid.

Rolls Royce made a good living offering near silent cars with imperceptible gear changes with "ample" power available.
You can now get that in a £16k EV!
A car that can charge for less than £5.
A car that doesn't need Oil and many filters/cams belts/injectors/DPF emission crap bolted on.
A car who's brakes basically don't wear out.

I think the problem is some people resist change.
Then add in a dose of propaganda from "certain" industries that might be affected.
I still love my ICE cars, but for day to day motoring, they are being outmoded.

I love my electric car, but I’m lucky that mostly I’m driving within a 10 mile radius of home, have a home charger and even have a couple of free public chargers nearby (for the time being). I can manage the occasional long journey once, maybe twice a year, down to England because at my age I don’t like driving for more than about 2 hrs without a loo / coffee stop and it is not too difficult to find a charging point that provides these facilities. If I were regularly driving long journeys and didn’t have a home charger then I would find it difficult, so recognise that it isn’t for everyone. How things will change in the future I don’t in the long term maybe hydrogen power will take over but I don’t see that being too significant in the next decade. So for now, for me electric cars are a good option, but they are not currently for everyone.

 

[East Level 2]

I think it daft to be actively anti EV. They are the future right now whether people want them or not.
They may not be as green as they are made out to be, but who is against having cars that don't emit fumes around the air you breath in. Like smoking in pubs, it's only now the clouds of smoke have gone do you see how stupid it was.

I agree they might not suit your lifestyle at the moment, or are still too impractical. But that isn't to say it justifies being "anti EV". The "i'm never having a EV" brigade will change their minds at some point. Being stubborn is just stupid.

Rolls Royce made a good living offering near silent cars with imperceptible gear changes with "ample" power available.
You can now get that in a £16k EV!
A car that can charge for less than £5.
A car that doesn't need Oil and many filters/cams belts/injectors/DPF emission crap bolted on.
A car who's brakes basically don't wear out.

I think the problem is some people resist change.
Then add in a dose of propaganda from "certain" industries that might be affected.
I still love my ICE cars, but for day to day motoring, they are being outmoded.

Where can you charge them for a fiver if you don't have a home charge point?
I'm not specifically anti-EV, the technology is brilliant, but they are totally impractical without a home charge point considering the high cost of of fast public charge points.

 

[Cassandra]

Where can you charge them for a fiver if you don't have a home charge point?
I'm not specifically anti-EV, the technology is brilliant, but they are totally impractical without a home charge point considering the high cost of of fast public charge points.

Culzean Castle with an Electroverse or ChargePlace Scotland card is free, slow but free, other NTS sites are probably the same.

 

[crooky]

I think it daft to be actively anti EV. They are the future right now whether people want them or not.
They may not be as green as they are made out to be, but who is against having cars that don't emit fumes around the air you breath in. Like smoking in pubs, it's only now the clouds of smoke have gone do you see how stupid it was.

I agree they might not suit your lifestyle at the moment, or are still too impractical. But that isn't to say it justifies being "anti EV". The "i'm never having a EV" brigade will change their minds at some point. Being stubborn is just stupid.

Rolls Royce made a good living offering near silent cars with imperceptible gear changes with "ample" power available.
You can now get that in a £16k EV!
A car that can charge for less than £5.
A car that doesn't need Oil and many filters/cams belts/injectors/DPF emission crap bolted on.
A car who's brakes basically don't wear out.

I think the problem is some people resist change.
Then add in a dose of propaganda from "certain" industries that might be affected.
I still love my ICE cars, but for day to day motoring, they are being outmoded.

You're stubborn the other way though.

In your world where you live in a house where you can home charge and also have other (ICE) cars you can use I'm sure electric vehicles seem great.

You seem to be making up reasons why others are not buying them though r.e people don't want to change, propaganda etc.

The main reason people are against EVs is first and foremost affordability. And to a lesser degree but still an important consideration that there's also a clear downgrade in some of the basic functionality of an ICE car.

People are rightly worried about being priced out of car ownership when EVs aren't merely a choice. But the only option.

 

[fulabeer]

You're stubborn the other way though.

In your world where you live in a house where you can home charge and also have other (ICE) cars you can use I'm sure electric vehicles seem great.

You seem to be making up reasons why others are not buying them though r.e people don't want to change, propaganda etc.

The main reason people are against EVs is first and foremost affordability. And to a lesser degree but still an important consideration that there's also a clear downgrade in some of the basic functionality of an ICE car.

People are rightly worried about being priced out of car ownership when EVs aren't merely a choice. But the only option.

How can i be stubborn the other way? I have 1 EV and 2 ICE (and a large history sports ICE). I just have real world experience, and not just something read on the internet. I have said i understand they don't suit everybody yet. I was a sceptic, but took a chance.

Public charging is getting better, and charging deals can be found. EV's are also getting cheaper by the day. There is a new movement of tightwads picking up really cheap used EV's on Youtube!
They are finding the batteries last way longer than thought. They are also signing up for the cheap public charging deals or old "free to charge" Tesla's, so it can be done even if you don't live in a house with a home charger.

New EV's with large ranges are starting to appear. They will be used bargains in 5 years. Once the market is flooded with cheap but decent EV's, peoples opinions will change.
So why are people worried? as they can keep their old ICE cars as long as they want. It's only new ICE cars that are stopping in 5 years. Hybrids in 10 years. So assuming a hybrid is good for at least 15 years, that's 25 years away!

Sorry, it's still stubbornness and propaganda scaring some people.

 

[BimboBob]

How can i be stubborn the other way? I have 1 EV and 2 ICE (and a large history sports ICE). I just have real world experience, and not just something read on the internet. I have said i understand they don't suit everybody yet. I was a sceptic, but took a chance.

Public charging is getting better, and charging deals can be found. EV's are also getting cheaper by the day. There is a new movement of tightwads picking up really cheap used EV's on Youtube!
They are finding the batteries last way longer than thought. They are also signing up for the cheap public charging deals or old "free to charge" Tesla's, so it can be done even if you don't live in a house with a home charger.

New EV's with large ranges are starting to appear. They will be used bargains in 5 years. Once the market is flooded with cheap but decent EV's, peoples opinions will change.
So why are people worried? as they can keep their old ICE cars as long as they want. It's only new ICE cars that are stopping in 5 years. Hybrids in 10 years. So assuming a hybrid is good for at least 15 years, that's 25 years away!

Sorry, it's still stubbornness and propaganda scaring some people.

Public charging might be getting better but demand for charging stations will only get worse the more ev's get sold. If the government had their way the power network would collapse which is why they put the date back. And they will continue to do so.

 

[liveandletdive]

Public charging might be getting better but demand for charging stations will only get worse the more ev's get sold. If the government had their way the power network would collapse which is why they put the date back. And they will continue to do so.

I personally dont think the government want people to have cars, and the pushing out of EV'S without the infrastructure is a prime example.
I love my EV, but I can charge at home for pennies, though go away for the weekend etc and your spending ages researching for charge points.

 

[fulabeer]

Public charging might be getting better but demand for charging stations will only get worse the more ev's get sold. If the government had their way the power network would collapse which is why they put the date back. And they will continue to do so.

I don't think they have fully thought it through. They surely need new power nuclear power stations. They cannot rely on renewable only? I thought this years ago, but wind/solar has picked up some of the burden.
They have a some surplus overnight. That's why night charging is cheaper. And battery storage will help even things more. But at some point that will also peak.
Then add getting rid of natural gas boilers. That is more electric energy needed to run heat pumps.
Are we relying on them getting Fusion going?

 

[Bill Walker]

I'm really not enjoying sticking up for EV's, but feel they are getting unfair media against them...here goes!

First battery size isn't always directly related to charge speed/time. The charging systems voltage has a big bearing. So a 400 volt system will not charge as quick as a 800 voltage system. Newer cars are able to make use of increasingly higher voltage systems. This is enabling much much quicker charge times even as range increases. Home charging does not benefit from that though. (even 3 phase)

You are right that older households do have limits on available amperage. Most home chargers have a amperage monitoring system. So they will reduce charging amps if the system becomes overloaded or nears the household threshold.
Most people do not charge their cars everyday. And that is with current batteries. As EV range increases, the need will reduce even further.
So, most multi EV car households alternate which car goes on charge overnight. Also there is no need to charge/run with a 100% charge. We normally only charge to 80%, 100% when we know we need to travel far. Obviously, you can charge anytime, but most deals are for overnight charging.

Local substations are massively under utilised overnight. This can actually cause problems with supply balancing. EV charging at least for the near future, actually has no effect.

Interesting mate.

I asked AI..... although I realise that some people are sceptical about that technology along with EVs. :)

Challenges:

• Increased Demand:
  Fully transitioning to EVs would significantly increase electricity demand, potentially straining the grid, especially if charging is concentrated during peak hours.
  
  
• Infrastructure:
  The current electricity infrastructure, including generation, transmission, and distribution, would need upgrades to handle the increased load.
  
  
• Local Overloads:
  While the overall grid might cope, some local areas might experience overloads if charging infrastructure isn't distributed effectively, according to Quora.
  
  
• Renewable Integration:
  Integrating more renewable energy sources (like wind and solar) is crucial for a sustainable EV transition, but their intermittency also presents challenges.
  

Mitigation Strategies:

• Smart Charging:
  Encouraging off-peak charging (e.g., overnight) through smart charging technologies can flatten demand curves and reduce strain on the grid, according to The Guardian.
  
  
• Grid Balancing:
  EVs can potentially participate in grid balancing services, where they can draw power during off-peak times and even feed power back into the grid during peak times, according to The Guardian.
  
  
• Infrastructure Investment:
  Significant investment in upgrading the electricity grid, including transmission and distribution networks, is essential.
  
  
• Renewable Energy Expansion:
  Expanding the capacity and reliability of renewable energy sources will be crucial to meet the increased demand sustainably.
  
  
• Government Policies and Incentives:
  Government policies and incentives can play a vital role in encouraging a gradual and planned transition to EVs, ensuring adequate infrastructure development, and promoting smart charging practices.
  

Overall:
While the transition to EVs will pose challenges to the UK power system, it is unlikely to cause a complete collapse. By proactively addressing these challenges through strategic planning, infrastructure investment, and innovative technologies, the UK can successfully navigate the EV revolution without major disruptions.

 

[meltonblue]

I personally dont think the government want people to have cars, and the pushing out of EV'S without the infrastructure is a prime example.
I love my EV, but I can charge at home for pennies, though go away for the weekend etc and your spending ages researching for charge points.

I’m driving mine to France next month with the family. Not done a trip like that in an electric before!

 

[Blue Maverick]

Sat in a Tesla the other day, bloody hell it’s sparse but like but everything thing going through the screen is very impressive, our car is now 13 years old still a great drive but a diesel on short journeys is just very uneconomical now, all we do is school run and round town. I do fancy one as we can charge at home so it’s pennys, the only thing is the insurance is double what we pay now which surprised me. The wife is not convinced by it and fancy a different kind, a hybrid, which defeats the object of cutting down on service costs etc, I’ll just have to keep plugging away.

 

[East Level 2]

Sat in a Tesla the other day, bloody hell it’s sparse but like but everything thing going through the screen is very impressive, our car is now 13 years old still a great drive but a diesel on short journeys is just very uneconomical now, all we do is school run and round town. I do fancy one as we can charge at home so it’s pennys, the only thing is the insurance is double what we pay now which surprised me. The wife is not convinced by it and fancy a different kind, a hybrid, which defeats the object of cutting down on service costs etc, I’ll just have to keep plugging away.

And unplugging away, otherwise you'll damage a lot of charging cables.

 

[meltonblue]

Sat in a Tesla the other day, bloody hell it’s sparse but like but everything thing going through the screen is very impressive, our car is now 13 years old still a great drive but a diesel on short journeys is just very uneconomical now, all we do is school run and round town. I do fancy one as we can charge at home so it’s pennys, the only thing is the insurance is double what we pay now which surprised me. The wife is not convinced by it and fancy a different kind, a hybrid, which defeats the object of cutting down on service costs etc, I’ll just have to keep plugging away.

When I got my EV, I tried a Tesla. Didn’t like it at all, it was too minimalist for me and just didn’t feel enough like a car inside.

 

[maxwellblue]

How can i be stubborn the other way? I have 1 EV and 2 ICE (and a large history sports ICE).

What's an "history sorts ice"

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I'm about to spend £20k on a new'ish Diesel.

Why - because I have a flat and wile i have a dedicated parking spot in a private car park there is no electric near. The car park infrastructure is managed through a management company who have been asked several times to sort out EV charging. Their response is a flat no. They claim it would be a significant development and out of the scope of their contract (this is true to some extent as the electrical meter room is some distance to the car park so its very unclear how you get power to the parking and how it gets charged). That leaves the residents / owners of the flats to do it themselves and some are landlords, some dont have cars etc so many with no interest it taking this on and of course it would come down to money and many wont want to or be able to.

I have no idea how the above gets sorted.